3nSahalee

Thanks Bill-

I amended my orig post.

Mines a '74. I am using the stock hold-down.

Does this change anything?

Thanks!

Hi all-

I'm at work, my 74 '02 is at home in garage and I was going to Costco to buy a new battery today at lunch, but I left my note at home.

Can somebody measure the battery tray for me, I want be sure to get the right size as they don't list the correct battery in their books.

I am using the stock hold-down clamp.

TIA!

Steve C.

BigDog-

I'm in Sammamish too, sahalee.

I've only seen a lite blue late model '02 from Timberline, a black 2800cs from Timberline and a grey NeuKlasse driving around the area, and there's the blue Bav by the roundabout on Inglewood hill.

Where are you? whuddya got for 2002?

We should get together sometime.

I've got some odds n ends parts from my old roundie if you need anything.

-Steve

count me in.

i'd look forward to some '02 comraderie.

voting for seattle area, or maybe if it floated around the puget sound area it'd be a larger group. olympia to b-ham, sequim to north bend.

i'll touch base w/brian capp, as he was the old '02 sig chair he may want to assist in getting it going again.

all the best to '02ers around the globe!

steve c.

Seattle area. Decent shape, straight, oxidized a bit, rubber strip is detached. Prefer to have p/u'ed. Will ship for actual cost + $10 hassle tax.

Where in seattle are you? Downtown has the Taphouse on like 5th and james- 150 beers on tap, the pike place brewery @ pike place marketis at 1st and pike, has great beer, hales is south of d-town across from safeco field, it is a dicey part of town there though.

Cheers! And welcome to seattle, enjoy your stay.

Woods family portrait - December 2009

Thanks Shad! much appreciated.

email sent.

complete. in ok shape. will include a bunch of period-correct dealer assorted glovebox literature with it.

$50.00 -shipped

or will trade for 2002 owners manual for a '74

**If sold for cash, $5.00 will be donated to 2002faq.com**

stevecarlisle1@gmail.com

Eagle alloys. Never mounted.

$200.00 + shipping. obo/trades.

located in Seattle area.

**If sold for cash, $20.00 will be donated to 2002faq.com**

stevecarlisle1@gmail.com

$75.00 + ship. or will trade for......

-flat style front turn signals

-kidney grille for late model

these are in decent condition, good for DD as is, no broken slats. could stand a good cleaning & polish. both have the black slat covers. one is missing reflector.

I have pics but need to resize 'em to post. I will asap.

Thanks!

stevecarlisle1@gmail.com

$40.00 shipped. or will trade for......

-1 flat style front turn signal (either side)

-square drivers side rear lens

-pair of square rear light covers (the ones in the trunk)

-intermittant wiper switch for square light

-kidney grille for late model

-front passenger side grille for late model

The top ashtray in pic is the 2002, the bottom is a rear ashtray from 2800cs, also for sale $25.00

**If sold for cash, $5.00 will be donated to 2002faq.com**

Thanks!

stevecarlisle1@gmail.com

$40.00 shipped. or will trade for......

-1 flat style front turn signal (either side)

-square drivers side rear lens

-pair of square rear light covers (the ones in the trunk)

-intermittant wiper switch for square light

-kidney grille for late model

-front passenger side grille for late model

Thanks!

stevecarlisle1@gmail.com

$50.00 + ship. or will trade for......

-1 flat style front turn signal (either side)

-square drivers side rear lens

-pair of square rear light covers (the ones in the trunk)

-intermittant wiper switch for square light

-kidney grille for late model

Thanks!

stevecarlisle1@gmail.com

$40.00 shipped. or will trade for......

-1 flat style front turn signal (either side)

-square drivers side rear lens

-pair of square rear light covers (the ones in the trunk)

-intermittant wiper switch for square light

-kidney grille for late model

-front passenger side grille for late model

this is from a '68 2002 console. with 2 good condition original blaupunkt speakers

**If sold for cash, $5.00 will be donated to 2002faq.com**

Thanks!

stevecarlisle1@gmail.com

looking for a decent set for daily driver, early u.s. flat turn signals with dual bulb set-up at a fair price.

Thanks!

stevecarlisle1@gmail.com

Great input Jim! Thank you.

The tangential issue is one of the reasons I backed off from actually doing this last week. It didn't appear that they would sit the same if I cut them. Safety is a MAJOR concern for me.

Anyone have a counterpoint to Jim's input?

Sislane? ought2? you guys have done it a few times... does the cut spring sit awkwardly afterward?

this thread has muddied it even more!!!

I did several hours of research last nite on this subject... many differing opinions here on the FAQ on this topic. My goal here is to dispel any myths about the cutting of 2002 springs to achieve a desireable height. (it's kinda long, i don't want to hog bandwidth, but guaging from the hits and forum input this is important stuff on a hot topic)

I found what I believe to be the most insightful and educational info at: www.eatonsprings.com/atqMainPage.htm

I've attached a few exerpts here:

Tech Question - Cutting Coil Springs, with calculations

Q -Mike,

Finally, I can ask an expert. I'm a member of a Classic Mustang forum where the "popular wisdom" is that if one cuts a spring, say a fraction of a coil (like 1/4 to 1/2), the spring *rate* increases. I'm an engineer (but alas an EE!) with no practical knowledge on the matter -- BUT, this "popular wisdom" tends to run contrary to my intuition. OK, within elastic limits of a spring in compression, does cutting a spring's free length change the rate (i.e., the "k" in F=k*x)??. I think it changes the rated load (as a percentage of the reduction in overall length) as the reduced overall length also reduced the total "F," or load, the spring can handle (max deflection/compression but I just don't see how the metal knows that part of it has been lopped-off or not. so, is *k* a function of spring length (and number of coils). I would really appreciate a bit more of information on what factors drive the *k* value for a given spring design (mostly I'm focused on coils for front springs here). I've read your web sites Spring Tech 101 and it doesn't address this specific question in detail. also, I know lots of restomod folks cut springs to achieve a certain ride height. But is this really the best practice if limited to less than, say, 10% of a spring's original length??. I think I already know the answer to this, but I want an expert opinion please.

A - Scott,

"Popular wisdom" rules. Cutting coils does increase the spring rate. Let me explain why.

The strength of a spring, leaf or coil is a function of the cube of the steel used. Keeping with the subject of your question, coil springs, the diameter of the wire and the length of the wire will give us the amount of steel used.

For this whole discussion we will be talking about springs with the same wire diameter and the same inside diameter. The only thing that will change will be the length of the wire used to wind the spring.

The longer the wire is the lower the spring rate. As the wire get shorter, such as when cutting the coil, the spring rate increases.

So everyone has a clear understanding lets describe what "rate" is. Rate is the amount of weight it takes to deflect a spring one-inch.

A very common mistake is to think that spring rate is how much a spring supports. How much weight a spring is designed to support is called "Load" or "Designed Load" or"Load Rate". This is cover in Spring Tech 101.

Rate and Load Rate are two totally different animals.

The calculation to find the rate of a coil spring is:

11,250,000 times the wire diameter to the 4th power divided by 8 times the active number of turns times the mean diameter cubed.

Active turns are the number of turns of the spring that do not touch anything. Any part of the coil which makes contact with anything becomes inactive, that is it no longer functions as part of the spring.

The mean diameter is the inside coil diameter plus one wire thickness. Or the outside coil diameter less one wire thickness.

Let's say for example a 1967 Mustang GT front spring is made from .610 wire and has an inside diameter of 3.875" and has a free height of16.145" (not installed) and is deflected down to 10.5" (load height) when loaded to 1,519 Lbs. (load rate) This spring has a spring rate of 269 Lbs.

This spring has 9.33 total coils but 1.33 coils touch the spring seat so they are inactive leaving 8 active turns. (I know this from the Ford blue print).

The mean diameter is 3.875 + .610 (The inside is the important diameter because it is the inside of the spring which is used to locate the spring on the corresponding suspension parts. The outside diameter is not considered because it will change with a change of wire diameter)

Do the math-

11,250,000 x (.610 x .610 x .610 x .610) / 8 x 8 active turns x (4.485 x 4.485 x 4.485) = 269 Lbs.

Double check the math - 16.145 - 10.5 = 5.645 deflection. 1,519/5.645 = 269

Now if we cut say 1/2 turn off this spring the active turns become 7.5.

So 11,250,000 x (.610 x .610 x .610 x .610) / 8 x 7.5 x (4.485 x 4.485 x 4.485) = 287 Lbs.

While the rate is increased the load is unchanged. Rate is the amount of weight required to deflect the spring one-inch while load is the amount of weight the spring will support at a given height.

Cutting coils is limited to those types which have tangential ends. Tangential ends are those which spiral off into space. If you tried to stand the spring on end it would fall over.

Square ends and pigtail ends, both will stand up, and can not be cut because the finished product will not mount correctly in the suspension.

See this tech question on Cutting Coil Springs for a more complete explanation.

When altering ride height one must be aware of much more than just the springs. Brake lines, steering, shock length and other areas of interference. We do not offer coil springs which will alter any ride height more than 2-inches. Nor do we recommend anyone alter the ride height more than 2-inches.

While we have all sorts of springs which will vary ride height, spring rates and ride quality on the shelf, cutting coils maybe, in some cases, the only way to achieve the desired stance one is looking for.

--------------------

The only type of coil springs that can be safely cut are those with "tangential" ends.

Tangential ends look as though they just twist off into space. The spring would fall over if you tried to stand the spring up.

Now that I have disappointed Frank, let me tell those with tangential end springs how to cut the RIGHT way.

DO NOT USE HEAT. Did you hear me......NO HEAT

Cut the coil with a hacksaw or a rubber cutoff wheel. NOT A TORCH!!!! And be sure to use safety glasses.

------------------------------

Posted merely as food for thought on the viability of cutting springs on a 2002.

-Are 2002 springs Tangential?

--- Not sure what 'Generational Thing' & "I'm 30" comments has to do with it....

I'm 44 and want to lower my car about 1-1/2" so it has the same stance as Sislane's & ought2's without spending $250 to do it.

My wife wants to redo our master bath and kitchen this spring and that isn't gonna be cheap. Neither is college tuition for my daughter in 2 years.

FWIW, I don't need to 'save up' for a set of ST's, my car fund is actually growing toward buying an e30 m3, if I save $250 here and there all the better.

This is just a sunny day 'fun' car for me, not racing or rallying it, some semi-agressive twisty backroads, taking the loooong way to golf courses saturday mornings and the occasional 8 mile freeway commute to work.

-sc

I advise NOT using a screwdriver to loosen the silver rings. You'll invariably slip and scratch 'em or worse. I learned the hard way on that task.

The best for me was using circlip pliers, tips in the 2 slots, and gently rotating the silver ring.

Thank you Sislane, that's awesome. I'd greatly appreciate seeing pics, I'll just follow right behind you thru the process that way.

BTW, I do have newish koni reds that were already installed when I purchased this car, I like 'em. My old 02 had Bilstien HD's and the koni's are comparable.

I'd like to get the stance that 'ought2' has on his car. IMO that is the perfect look. Are those 13" or 14" rims?

I'm currently refurbing some 13" Gotti's that have the same look as cromodora's, to be ready in the spring.

I figure with the cash i save on springs, I can reallocate car funds and finally get a set of euro turn signals.

Thanks too all for the informative input, armed with this new info, and sislane's pics, this will be a very productive 4 day weekend for the car. I'm also installing a few parts that I picked up at German Auto Salvage in Boring, OR last weekend, and hopefully making a parts run to Seattle too.

Thanks again. You guys & this forum are the best!

Wishing all a safe & happy Thanksgiving.

Steve C.

I want to cut my springs, while the strut assy & rears are still attached. I've read thru all the archive posts, and I'm still not clear enough to confidantly do it. I had it jacked up ready to go last weekend with the dremel in hand but got SCARED!!!! and backed off. Then i saw another 02 tonite that was lower than mine and now i really want to do it.

Will somebody that's done it give me the step-by-step, definitive how to on properly cutting my stock springs to attain a drop of about 1-1/2".

I was perplexed over the following:

-how many coils do I cut to get this amount of drop?

-i assume i cut the bottom, is that correct?

-is the spring going to shoot back down with tension/force, or just dangle til the weight of car is reapplied?

-what about the rears? what's the procedure there?

-will the springs be spinable to get the proper positioning on the perches top & bottom? is this a potential issue?

-does it work out well in the long run, is it worth doing and saving the $250 over aftermarket? i know it stiffens 'em up 10-20%, which is a good thing,

-any bad spring cutting experiences.

Thanks all.

steve

I'm surprised that was only a 1 guiness project! appers to me to require at least 3 or 4.

the problem with sintra and trovicel is the fact that they will distort a bit in the high heat inside the car on a hot summer day. it'll end up wavy. I have used a ton of sintra, and I like trovicel better in some regards as it is both denser and harder. they both have micro air pockets created in the extruding of the material. as an example, a hair dryer can really soften sintra & trovicel to a 'buttery' state. i could create a vase from sintra with a blow dryer. it will also crack/shatter if cold on hard impact, which will not happen to the sheet of abs.

the abs is solid with no air pockets, you need a heat gun to get it to soften.

another great plastic is PETG. it's the stuff plastic soda bottles are made of. you can get sheets of it in various thicknesses. It's an UBER-tough plastic.

I'll go to my file cabinet of resource literature and investigate further as I know of a few other plastics that would be ideal for panels.

Plex is not the best for this. It's a difficult plastic to work with.

I made some panels for my Sunbeam from a 2 or 3mm ABS. I'm very satisfied with them. It's alot easier to work with and is a very dimensionally stable plastic, heat/moisture resistant (no warpage) and highly impact resistant. Easily shaped/trimmed/drilled/sanded, and can be cut very precisely with a utility knife and straight edge (make several passes). Most large cities have a plastics supplier and they should have it, or be able to get it.

I've been out of tradeshow displays for several years, so there may even be better plastics out there now.

When I redo my '02 panels, (winter project), I will definitely go with plastic over wood.

HTH

It's so true!

I live in a golf course community outside of Seattle with several current & retired professional athletes, a few local celebs, big-time businesspersons, a bunch of Micro$ofties, and Mac from Mac 'n Jacks brewery & his 3 Vipers, as fellow residents. Daily I see Ferraris, AMG's, Porsches, M-cars, a few Bentley's, Ford GT's, Aston Martins, alot of garage queen classic muscle, and even Ken Griffey Jr.'s old Alpina 850csi, in the 'hood. The '02 always draws smiles & thumbs, starts conversations & friendships, and evokes fond memories from these guys. They've either had one and regret selling it, or have known someone with an '02 and had great experiences. Two guys in my office had '02s over 20 years ago and still claim them as their best/favorite car.... EVER!

And the neighborhood MILF's? OMG!! They absolutely adore it.

It's even respected in the parking lot at the clubhouse with no one ever parking too close. (wish I still had the 2800cs, though. That car would've had 'em reaching for the Kleenex & changing their boxers!)