AFR questions

[Guest Anonymous]

I am on the verge of purchasing a wideband sensor for tuning the tii. I am getting it for the purpose of getting it dialed in to perfection and ultimately so that I might accurately tune the k-fischer with mods which are yet to come. And it has occured to me that although 14.7 to 1 is quoted as the magic number that a. there might be situations in which you would want to run rich or lean and b. it might be difficult to tune across the range given a that the throttle position rpm may be the same under different load conditions. I guess that after thinking about it more the process seems not nearly a straight forward as I imagined the wideband would make it. Where have others started with this process. This isnt a race car so obviously I need to tune for a variety of situations from WOT to stop and go traffic. Any thoughts about this stuff. Anyone else using one of these sensors? Any recommendations in terms of suitable reading material?

[Guest Anonymous]

URL: http://www.hbci.com/~tskwiot/2002.html

and use it for some tuning. It is just a tool, not a miracle. You want to tune for power (or economy) not to what some o2 meter says. So you need some way of measuring power, and then use the wb02 to correlate mixture changes to power output. There is no magic mixture for max power (i.e. don't tune to a number, tune for acceleration! The motor will tell you what it wants, you need to learn to 'listen' to it). Seat of pants number for max power is in the 12:1 to 12.5:1 range but it varies with the motor and the operating point.

14.7 is the magic number for emissions with a cat -- nothing else. Max power will be richer. Max economy at cruise will be leaner (with a bunch more ignition advance too). It is much easier to tune a race car, you only have to worry about max power at wide open throttle, not all that pesky drivability stuff.

Keep an eye out for the www.diy-efi.org site. Unfortunatly the server is down now, so keep checking back. There is a link to the wb02 project and a wb02 mailing list. Read up in the archives and do some googling -- there is tons of info out there!

I use my wb02 with a programmable efi system (see link). I can tune 64 different load (engine vacuum) vs. RPM points in the main map. I'm not a tii expert by any means, but mechanical systems give you less to adjust - unless you want to open the pump up and change the shape of the cam/cone (or whatever they call it)!

HTH,

Tim

[Guest Anonymous]

URL: http://wbo2.com/

eventually I might get to the EFI stuff and when I do I will probably go megasquirt. First i wanna get the stock stuff set up- then i wanted to try throttle bodies with the kugelfischer- but I am reconsidering that due to the expense vs. return. What are the limitations of the single throttle body set up? As I have the tii (manifold/ fuel supply)it seems it would be relatively simple. What can i expect to spend in addition to the megastuff to get it set up that way?I was thinking SDS but I just cant justify it with a DYI kit like megasquirt at less than 1/6th the price. Also i wanna understand how all of the stuff works and the mega squirt is cool like that.

Anyhow how do you like the diy wideband? the site is still down- which sensor does it use. How does it compare in usefulness to the techedge 2.0 product which is using the widely avaiable Lsu4? How much did it cost to build?

Is it reasonable to think that I can build this stuff without any prior electronics experience?

[Guest Anonymous]

(nt)

[Guest Anonymous]

(nt)

[Guest Anonymous]

URL: http://www.hbci.com/~tskwiot/2002.html

pulley. Anyone have a spare tii crank pulley assembly? It looks like it may be easier to get it to work with this one, but I've only seen a pic of the tii part.

Tim

[Guest Anonymous]

URL: http://www.hbci.com/~tskwiot/2002.html

and see how you like it. People are getting a little 'sensitive' about modifing tii's these days and the kugelfischer is the essence of tii. Programmable efi is great if you've modded the engine internals substantially and the stock fuel mapping is no longer adequate.

I like the 320i/tii style manifold with single throttle. There is a nice low rpm torque boost that the manifold tuning gives you. It works great for a street car. If you wanted an all-out race setup, sacrificing low end power for the top, the multiple throttles would help.

Hugo used pico injectors: http://www.bmw2002faq.com/talkshop/forum/messages/63960.html

They are smaller and easier to fit under the plenum 'log'. I also don't use much acceleration enrichment at all, so you may be able to get by without a throttle position sensor.

As for cost of the bits, it depends. If you scrounge from a pick-and-pull, you could probably get what you need for $100 or so. If you don't have the time, or want new, the price goes up.

The diy-wb02 uses the NTK sensor. Find one before getting the kit, they are scarce and pricey these days. Bruce and Al (megasquirt founders/designers) are working on a more powerful version that will have support for the bosch wb02 sensor integrated into the ecu. But be prepared to wait for this, it is still in development and could be a year or so before it is availible.

The techedge guy caused some bad blood on the diy-efi list when he started selling his own WB02 stuff contrary to the users agreement, so I don't keep up on what he's up to. People taking the group's work and selling it has been a problem and is against the spirit of diy-efi.

Many people have built and installed these without prior electronics experience. It depends on you and your willingness to learn (rather than write a check)!!

HTH,

Tim

[Guest Anonymous]

It's a difficult process!

[Guest Anonymous]

URL: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/

I've had several problems with my TE WB. You are completely dependent on Peter for support. He often ignores my questions. I would stay away. Plus he is now serial number-izing all 2.0 units. You have to have a valid serial number to download firmware. It's funny how he got concerned all of the sudden about the "intelectual property" he has in the project that he "stole"

Anyway If i could do it again I would go with innovate motorsports.. It's a big deal to have them locally.