e31fan

In case anyone searches and finds this thread, Napa Auto Parts 12MM copper crush washer and an o-ring from them got me all sealed back up 

In tracking down my running issues, pulled pressure regulator valve, disassembled, cleaned and reinstalled. It had a crush valve that leaked after reassembly, got a universal o ring pack and those didn’t seat it completely. Anyone have a tried and true o ring they’ve used that worked well? Thanks!!

1973 2002tii

On 3/17/2024 at 10:39 PM, '76mintgrün'02 said:

 

The one with a wide tip looks like the style used on the e21.  Typically, they are the same height.  Can you post a photo of the bottom side of them? 

 

I'm thinking someone may have shortened the wide tipped rotor to make it sit lower because the Crane disc on the center post cam is holding it up.  Photos of that would be nice too.

 

(For what it's worth), the e21 rotors have 1Kohm resistors built in and the stock 2002 rotors have 5Kohms.  Usually, they will say 1R or 5R on the underside of Bosch rotors.

 

I shorten the rotor for my distributor because I added a custom points holder.  It's easy to do on a belt sander.

 

 

 

 

Great suggestion to check, I would have never studied the bottom of them. I was able to check and it appears unmolested. They appear virtually identical in height but without a micrometer I cannot say with total assurance. The odd thing is the new one will not fit under the cap. I found one thread mentioning a resisterless button with wide contact used from an e21. I’m taking the $10 gamble and ordering it to see if it’s the same as what is currently on the car. 

I would appreciate if anyone knows what unit is in my distributor (pictured below). I don’t know if that’s what Crane used to sell and am not familiar with Pertronix from decade + ago and if they’ve changed design these days. Thanks!

On 3/18/2024 at 2:54 AM, Preyupy said:

It would be good information if you taped the fuel pressure gauge to the windshield and went for a drive.  If the pressure is steady at your 22.5 psi when you have the engine under load at 3500+ rpm you probably have a bad fuel pressure regulator valve, not a clogged intake screen or air leak on the inlet side of the pump.  If it was a clogged fuel filter the fuel pressure would be closer to the 29 psi they normally run if you turn on the pump without starting the engine.  That pump should be capable of supplying at least 3x the volume that engine needs and well over 80psi if it is healthy.  But again if the pressure does not fall off under load it’s probably NOT a fuel pump or pickup problem. 

That is great information, thank you. Unfortunately right now it’s not running consistently enough to drive it around. I am going to check the fuel pressure regulator, though, soak and clean and reinstall. I have the replacement fuel filter as well and want to isolate each item as I go along to try to see if I can’t pinpoint the actual issue. Thanks!!

18 minutes ago, Einspritz said:

What's your voltage at the pump while running?

 

The wiring to the pump as new is insufficient, so an old crusty, corroded wire may not provide enough power..., 10 ga. (US) Will be best.

I’ll check that, thanks!

Another bizarre thing in chasing this down I ordered all the low hanging fruit maintenance items including rotor cap and button. The replacement cap is the same as I currently have, as it is marked, but rotor buttons are different. The button I received matches what should be on there, but is much different looking and doesn’t clear the cap when I install it. My old rotor button has no marking on it, any idea which one I need or what it is? I do have an optical eye on distributor and Crane xr3000 ignition. Thanks! 

4 minutes ago, tzei said:

Yes, pressure is too low. I’ll bet flow rate is under specs too. All filters good? No nicks in delivery line?

Then new pump.

Every filter or screen except main at radiator support has been inspected and cleaned. Main is only about 2 years old, but have replacement to throw in. Every line I’ve inspected appears to be free of nicks or collapsed. Thanks!

17 minutes ago, Son of Marty said:

Yes you need 28-29 psi, you might try cleaning the pressure relief valve which is built in the fuel return nipple on the back of the pump, be careful when you disassemble the valve there's a spring inside that could shoot out to never-never land. When was the last time you changed the fuel filter on the radiator support? And checked the fuel pick up in the tank.

 

PS. Tii's have always had an electric fuel pump.

I’ll definitely try the pressure relief valve and thanks for the tip on the spring! Yes to the inlet screen, looked pretty clean and I did clean it up before putting back in. 
 

Fuel filter at radiator support has been 2 years now.

I misspoke in the sense it appears someone had switched to a 3 or 5 series looking pump when I looked at it last week. It’s on my list because to make a proper bracket because holy zip ties! Thanks!

Finally got a pressure gauge, hooked in after the fuel filter and at KF banjo (1973 2002tii) and I’m reading 22.5 PSI. Cleaned inline pickup screen and front banjo screen already. Car has been retrofitted with electrical pump at some point.  Do you  think this could cause my barely running, dies after revving symptoms, or time to dive deeper than potential fuel pump replacement? Thanks in advance!

Looking to buy bracket that holds accumulator and pump. Thanks!

12 minutes ago, dlacey said:

This looks like the standard tii fuel pump setup but the pump itself is a later style Bosch replacement. The later pumps aren't all the same size, so it seems somebody got creative to secure it under there. The noise you hear could well be because the pump or output piping has shifted so it's touching the body. Originally that fuel pump bracket is on rubber isolators to keep the noise down.

That’s a great thought, I’ll see about isolating it to see if the noise changes. Should know a lot more once I’m able to test pressure tomorrow. Thanks!

36 minutes ago, Mike Self said:

Just a little more information, please...tii or carbureted?  If the former, does this pump replace the OEM tii electric pump?  And if the latter, is the mechanical pump still functioning or has it been bypassed/eliminated?  Usually an electric pump is installed in a carbureted car to replace a dead mechanical pump, or to quickly refill the carburetor when the car's been sitting for awhile, thus eliminating having to prime it.

 

And I'm hopeful that the braided cloth-covered hose in your third picture is no longer actively involved in fuel movement; if original it's way past it use-by date and should be replaced.  

 

mike

Mike, it’s a 1973 tii. Mechanical pump has been eliminated and this is in its place, located behind rear right wheel at subframe. Yes, totally agree about hose replacement, it’s definitely in the plan along with cleaning this all up. 

In trying to track down my running issue, went to clean pump screen, per forum suggestion, to find this rat’s nest with what appears to be an aftermarket electric pump of some variety. 🤦🏻‍♂️ Any insight from the photos of what pump this is? Absolutely going to fabricate a correct bracket for this. I’ve attached a video, is the sound coming from the pump what would be considered normal? I thought I used to recall it would make noise on start up then quiet down if recollection serves me right, but now sound is constant. Thanks in advance!

Looking for factory airbox, please message if you have one available. Thanks!!

53 minutes ago, tzei said:

Can’t help with the coil but…

Does it die bc too much or too little fuel? 
Check cold start valve - does it leak?

Fuel pressure - from  el.pump to kf unit. Is it enough?

And the classic: engine earth cable(s) & points.

 

Oh and don’t zip tie anything to ignition leads. That’s asking for trouble.

Thank you for the tips!

Absolutely and thank you for the suggestion, they don’t look too solid!

Recently my 1973 2002tii started running extremely rough out of nowhere, barely idling, sputtering while revving, and frequently dying at idle. It just so happened to occur 10 minutes after getting gas, so that’s my #1 suspect right now. Waiting on a siphon to arrive to get all of the gas out, but in the meantime I wanted to check down all of the other potential culprits and do a little spring cleaning while it was down. Things I’ve checked so far;

-Fuel pickup micron screen. It was in pretty good shape, still cleaned it but appeared to be relatively new as well as the gas tank itself, very little sediment. 

-KF Pump screen on banjo bolt in front of KF pump. Looked good as well, still cleaned and replaced. 
-Distributor cap and rotor. Rotor looked a little worn down, light sand on all the points and reinstalled. I ordered new ones that should arrive this week.

-Checked all plugs, looked a little black but good overall, and figured it was largely due to limping it home while it was running so bad. Still ordered new ones along with plug wires that appeared good, but never replaced in my time so good to cross off list.

-Main fuel filter located at nose. Ordered a new one for good measure knowing bad gas is my #1 suspect right now. 

-Visually inspected fuses, ground wires, and then got to coil and wiring and this is where I got confused…

PO has a Crane Cams XR3000 ignition wired to what I found was a “Standard Motor Company” coil with 1303 stamped on it. This seems like a pretty generic universal coil, and something I’d like to get in front of and replace, but I have no idea what to replace it with. I’ve read a lot of the FAQ’s on the different coils, some requiring resistors, some not, but not anything related to when this Crane Cams ignition is in place. The coil states it requires an external resistor, but I haven’t located one. Even if I wanted to replace it with the exact coil or have for backup, I cannot find the exact 1303 coil available new. I’d honestly like to move away from that back to a brand more suited for the car but I cannot figure out which one would work given my exact setup. All help would be greatly appreciated! 
 

Upholsterer rebuilt the Recaro internals and foam, finished with alcantara and Mtech fabric. Night and day difference in comfort!

1 hour ago, wegweiser said:

Sherman is 100% correct. On a 1973 model, the turn signal stalk switch is ALSO the "ON/OFF" switch for the wipers. Press / click the end cap inward (toward the column) and the wipers should go on. Only on earlier cars (67-71) is that pull switch used to turn them on. The pull switch is just the speed (slow vs fast).

 

Thank you both for the clarification, I’ll now be on the lookout for a 67-71 switch to replace what is there. Thanks!

1 hour ago, shermanmartinez said:

Actually, the switch on the dash is a two speed switch for the wiper speed as Paul mentioned.  The stalk on the right of the steering column turns the wipers off and on.

I’m really confused now, as I don’t have a stalk, just the pull switch on the dash. Going to have to pull it and find a part number. Were all 2002’s set up this way?

23 hours ago, wegweiser said:

You need the wiper SPEED switch? The one on the dashboard, near the cigarette lighter? I might have one.

Yes, mine operates the on/off function by pulling it out and I believe would control speed if operable, correct? Thanks!

Looking for switch, not stalk mounted, wiper switch. Thanks!

Please message me with what you’ve got and location please! Kentucky here. Thanks!

2 hours ago, Pdxguy said:

@e30loveLove the blacked out exterior trim line. How did you do it? Actually, the whole car looks great!

Thank you! It was taken off and painted.