manimal

Is the seller using a potato phone? I haven't see a picture that bad in 15+ years.

I would put money on that being Jim Johnson. I remember seeing him autoXing a black box flare 2002 with side drafts around 2007 and being near the top in times of the day. He ended up buying David Lumbra's collection and ~7 years ago I went to a local car meet he hosted at his family compound in Marcola. Attached are two pics I took that day. I should have taken more of the field of 2002s/e30s. The inside of that building was full of goodies, both cars and parts.

David's business was 2002restorations.com. Side note, web.archive.org and archive.is are extremely helpful. It's very easy to archive helpful links with archive.is and I've found web.archive.org isn't scraping/archiving as much as it used to. I highly recommend checking both if you come across a helpful link. Some of the internet is permanent, unfortunately it's usually the stuff you don't want.

Jim's dad owns(ed) a paint/body shop in Springfield, the name escapes me. Jim has a few brothers and they now own/operate "Northwest Arsenal". I've seen one of his 2002's parked out front often(visible from I-5). I'd bet he's there most days if you want to call and ask about the motor. If it's not his engine he probably knows who owned it.

edit: I'd bet the nitrous was run uncontrolled(always on) because the car was carb'd and it was a cheat. The "shelf" was an attempt to prevent it from pooling or causing overrun at part throttle/during queue. IDK though, I've never run nitrous.
 

edit #2: If Alan is on this board he probably knows who ran it, but he's an E21 guy so I doubt it's his motor.

14 hours ago, jimk said:

Does California make emissions inspections easy with engine swaps?   Just wondering because of the complications with inspections for OE equipment.

Surely you jest...

All emissions equipment from the donor car needs to be in place and functioning for the car to be BAR'd. If it's a newer engine the cats need to be the same linear distance from the head as the are in the donor(within a narrow range). Technically the OEM exhaust manifold has to be used unless you can find an aftermarket one with a CARB sticker. This can be an issue with LS swaps depending on which car you get your motor from since some have center dump headers and others have rear dump. New cars often have evap stuff in the tank, so you have to figure that out. OEM air intake or aftermarket "cold air intake" from the same vehicle, no codes, correct ecu, etc...

LS swaps are really common because Chevy sells a few CA emissions compliant long block variants of the LS as "E-rod" kits with everything from the throttle body through the cats and wiring harness + ECU as a kit.

Another option is to buy a diesel variant(524td for example) since they are emissions exempt until '96(?).

On 4/13/2022 at 3:43 PM, whatyear said:

and m20 for dummies swap guide

 

Shoutout to my original account which somehow got wiped in the forum update 10+ years ago... I probably still have that document and I might even get around to updating it with pics this year after finishing the K swap stuff and a ton of other work on my Z. 

Are you going to bring it to the Los Gatos C&C tomorrow?

 

15 hours ago, SteadFast said:

I plan on going with the 2 piece option and use this to move the CSB mounting point back to use the e30 driveshaft: 

 

Two piece is definitely the way to go, I was talking to a friend a few weeks ago who ran into the same issue on his F20 swapped non-02 with a similar length one piece driveshaft. He had horrendous vibrations at freeway speeds 

Only thing to consider with that CSB relocation bracket is it was designed for their engine swap. The angle of the engine and location of the transmission output flange relative to the ground may be different than your swap. It's a good idea to check angles before drilling the holes in the transmission tunnel to "permanently" fix the adapter in place. 

Mounts are done, it'll be a few weeks before i can get some made. Moved the engine a bit for steering center link clearance, intake/booster clearance, and ground clearance. Compression of the e30 motor mounts was taken into account based on what I measured in my Z's K swap. 

On 4/3/2023 at 8:49 AM, Georges said:

Would an oil pan designed for an E30 work in our 2002s?

The Kpower e30 pan would be the most likely to fit, I'll spend some time this weekend modeling it. The "wings" on it appear to be narrower than the e30 318i pan which I had in a 2002 year ago. It only required a little notching of the triangular brace forward of the steering box mount.

I know the miata pan won't fit, that pan has a rear sump which would occupy the same space as the 02 subframe. 

I'm almost done with the motor and transmission mount modeling. I'll likely have pics to post this weekend. 

I made some 10" tall boxes out of 2x4s to put under the rear wheels so when it was jacked up it wasn't as extreme of an angle. When jacking it up make sure the parking brake is on and the jack is inline with the car/able to roll so it doesn't try to push or pull the car while it is lifted/lowered.

I put the motor on the subframe with a low profile 2.5ton jack under and wheeled that under the car. I lifted the front of the vehicle with a hoist via the bumper mounts on a '74+(hood on) or strut towers on a roundie(hood off). I've even done it with the hood on and no hoist on a roundie, but it took a lot of jacking stages with lots of body support via stacking wheels/tires and 2x4s for shims.

Many ways to skin a cat as they say, but I like going from under so I don't have to remove/reinstall the hood or worry as much about scratching the paint.

4 hours ago, donttellymwiferacing said:

Am I missing something here with everyone being so worried about OEM driveshafts ( I am new to BMWs) I've had custom driveshafts made many times. A trophy truck spec one that could handle 40" tires and 1000 rwhp was $725 to have made for my prerunner.

 

Weight, I had a custom driveshaft made for my swap by shortening a S2k 1310 ujoint kit trying to avoid using adapters where possible to reduce the chance of vibration or failure(more bolted connections = greater likelihood of failure). Unfortunately that driveshaft is a porker. I'm going to have a friend make me a custom adapter for the S2k 6 bolt CV to the 4 bolt Datsun R180 flange. It's about 5lbs lighter using a shortened S2k driveshaft + adapter ring and CVs are slightly more efficient in power transfer, though in the 02 setup that differential likely wouldn't be measurable due to the near perfect driveline alignment. It also would have been cheaper to do the S2k/datsun(in my case) hybrid driveshaft.
 

Another thing to note for someone doing the e30/S2k hybrid driveshaft is the AP1 and AP2 transmissions have 8 and 10mm bolts respectively. Also, Honda thought poka yoking the driveshaft was necessary so the male protrusion on the transmission side CV is 4mm larger OD than the diff side.  
 

3 hours ago, TobyB said:

Size.  It's very chunky, and all the chunk is on top.

Ratios.  1st is useless, and then the spacing isn't very good after that, and the 

1:1 final leaves you spinning really fast at the end of the day.  The 6- speed has a nice OD ratio, but it's even bigger,

Bell housing. 

 

S2k trans is also tall as it has a built in 1.2:1 secondary reduction, but it tapers down more than the BMW trans. Only downside is the trans mount design is more difficult to adapt while retaining exhaust and ground clearance. It's also widely accepted to be one of the best shifting transmissions around with relatively close ratios. Downside is only a 0.93(iirc) final drive, not sure what they were thinking there. I can't think of a track where the 5-6 shift needs to be that close unless you put a 6:1 diff in the car...

Another consideration is the transmission was designed for high RPM where the BMW trans was not. It's unlikely you'll have any issue, but another point to note. Adapter plates are $250-300, adapter flywheels $500ish(aluminum or steel), then it uses OEM honda S2000 components. I paid 750 for a trans with shifter from someone who said they had it inspected and was a spare. He seemed trustworthy, but I guess I'll find out in a few months.

10 hours ago, chargin said:

 

Actually you want a Standard 2002 booster, I had to swap out my Tii Booster due to length.

For a F20/F22 swap, yes, and that's great since most people already have one. On the K24 with the Kpower intake as you can see in the model, it just hits the stock booster. What's less apparent is it hits the IAC valve underneath the manifold. The smaller diameter Tii one would fix this.

Yes but the Skunk comes with many of its own issues according to many S2000 owners like ITB's which have even more room and even more issues, adapting the S2000 Intake manifold would be the easiest solution.
A Skunk2 manifold may provide even more clearance. There are adapter plates to run a F20/22 intake on a K, but that may push the intake into the booster based on your images. The reason people have issues with that manifold is you lose some of the factory accessories like the IAC mount, same with the ITBs. There isn't anything fundamentally wrong with the actual piece, it just requires more work to get OEM components connected if you want the car to run well on warmup/idle/low speed.

 

This position actually feels really good, mine came out of the 2002 tunnel hole 

I might move the engine forward a few more mm which would bring it closer to where your shifter is. Right now it's about an inch back from what you're showing. 

 

For Header I used the Top Half from a S2000 and fabricated from 4 into 2 back, retaining the Honda Heat Shields which are VERY effective 

This might be the easiest way to do a header on the K, but you'll still need to chop the flange off and cut/rotate two of the runners since the F series has asymmetric intake/exhaust runners while they are symmetric(or nearly so) on the K series. Unfortunately the factory K exhaust collector is pointing straight down into the steering idler mount. It's also a very small diameter exhaust. 

 

S2000 Pan and 2002 subframe work together

I'm not too surprised, the K24 is a really tall motor. This is another consideration for someone doing the swap. A F series motor is more up front, but the swap requires less fabrication and custom parts.

 

This does NOT work, I have a brand new one in my garage on a shelf 

Which center steering link did you buy? The one from IE? Multiple vehicles had them and i know 2002 underground sells one with their swap. I've seen other vehicles with them mounted so I'm inclined to believe there is one which works. I doubt 2002 underground would have had a custom one made which happens to look identical to an OEM piece due to the volume needed for a custom run, but maybe they did.

 

Hopefully this shows some of the positives and negatives of the F swap vs the K swap. As for cost, if you can do the fabrication and you buy most of the parts new expect to spend around 12k on the swap. That's with budgeting $1750 for the motor + S2k trans, replacing all maintenance items with OEM including the clutch, and swapping a JDM spec to US spec for ease of future maintenance. I documented the swap I did in my Z down to the last bolt with part numbers/links to where I purchased and weights of assemblies. Once I get the Z running I'll post that spreadsheet. 

I might make these mounts, but it won't be a bolt in swap. 

You'll need to modify the K oil pan, 02 subframe, and 02 trans tunnel. There is an OEM center steering link which dips below the factory 02 steering link, I can't recall which model it came off though(maybe someone else can chime in).

A Tii booster would help, though the Skunk2 intake may clear better than the Kpower intake seen below. The OEM K water neck needs to be replaced with a swivel version. Radiator clearance is improved and the 14" fan I have in front of my OEM radiator with the original M10 would likely fit behind an IE aluminum radiator so you could run AC w/o cutting the nose. 

With the S2000 transmission the shifter is a bit closer to the steering wheel and you could probably make a stock looking console which hides the raised portion needed to clear the shifter. I have an E30 e-brake handle in my car for reference, but it should still clear the factory e-brake handle. Driveshaft length ~1265mm, I'd probably modify an e30 automatic driveshaft to fit. The driveline angles are nearly perfectly planar and concentric, less than 0.05deg out so you could use the OEM S2000 front CV with the E30 u-joints and not have an issue with phasing. 

Probably the hardest part would be the header. The header pictured is for a S2000 K swap and it doesn't fit, I doubt any S2000 k swap headers would fit. Kpower industries has two custom headers which may fit, one for an e30, one for a BRZ. 

On 1/27/2023 at 4:40 AM, DanJer Motorsports said:

Miata’s have an a-arm setup that would be pretty easy to put under a 2002.

Well there goes a few hours I should have spent working on the car IRL.

Positions are approximate, rear actually looks relatively easy to swap.

On 1/26/2023 at 9:04 AM, edgefinder said:

My next question, has anyone built a 4 link or A arm front end on an 02?

Someone did a version for the Datsun S30's. Pretty big difference in upper vs lower control arm length, might end up with too much camber change?

Like others have mentioned, it's a lot of work for something that won't be legal in any events (unless you want to go full gonzo time attack build) and no/negligible improvements on the street vs custom valved/sprung strut setup from someone who knows what they're doing.

On 1/2/2023 at 8:39 AM, tjones02 said:

Can you even buy a car today that only weighs around 2200lbs? 😝

Miata, 2320 with a tank of gas which is probably what most roundies with the typical upgrades weigh(Recaros, 5spd, sway bars, volvo/e21 brakes, and 15" wheels). 

I have one. I've been contemplating selling the file, but haven't come up with a solid plan yet.

Toby's post hits the nail on the head. While not thousands of hours, it did take a stupid amount of time with a $75k tool. I didn't just scan the car either, I removed most of the parts, scanned them separately, and compiled everything together. Only thing I didn't pull was the dash and engine/trans, but I did scan an M10 separately and insert it. 

The file is huge, even using a workstation with a 16GB GPU solidworks isn't happy unless a lot of files are suppressed. 

Cut my car in half with a computer



edit, wow I need to update my sig...

The car I did it to doesn't have carpet. The console probably won't fit, but if you made a custom console you could probably hide the carpet modifications under the console.

Turbo the M10. 

You can do it in stages, starting with a megasquirt conversion and the suspension/brake refresh/upgrade if you haven't already. Some of the turbo system layout could be done with the car still drivable, ie pull the exhaust off and mount the turbo/manifold and start the IC/oil line plumbing. If you want to drive the car it's only 30 min to reinstall the exhaust manifold and take the car for a spin. 

If you don't do clutch dumps and start out with lower boost levels, the driveline will survive until you're ready to cut out the transmission tunnel and install an M30 Getrag 260/rear end upgrade.

On 3/24/2019 at 10:52 AM, 2002Scoob said:

That's a really nice shot. Where did you get that gas cap? I like how it appears to sit flush with the body. 
 

Worth mentioning on the diff, shipping from the US to Europe isn't that bad. I shipped a e30 glass moonroof to Latvia for $475 a few years ago with shipNEX.com. A differential would probably run in the <$200 range and open differentials are just about free over here. 

45 minutes ago, TobyB said:

Very early (pre 6- 86?) first generation MR2 rears.  They are quite short, small, and quite stiff.

 

They may also be NLA- I haven't ordered them in a long time...

 

t

They're NLA, I bought the wrong ones for my Z and ended up going with the Rabbit Bilstein inserts back in Oct. They were back ordered then as well, but I was able to get a set of four from two distributors.

I placed a few orders with ECS in the past, definitely will never purchase from them or any of their subsidiary companies again. 

See post 10
https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=428066

Nice collage, especially the two pic two from the left(both my car). When I first bought the car I was indifferent, but it's really grown on me. The color is beautiful in daylight, but kinda ugly under fluorescent lighting. Like others said, don't change it, Agave over tobacco is a great combo on a roundie. I wouldn't paint a square tail car agave, even with a pre-'74 bumper conversion. It needs the aluminum grills, trim, and chrome taillight surrounds.  

I replaced my 12" with a 14". It's a generic ebay special and I had to cut the top and bottom tabs off. It barely fit and required a bit of flexing to pop in. Unfortunately I don't have any pics of it installed, but I'll take some in the next day or two and update. Red circles are where the tabs were removed. A small amount of the fan is covered, but not enough to appreciably reduce flow. 

This really sucks for all enthusiast forums. Every time I google something and look at a different forum(welding earlier today) it's filled with this p500 stock image bullshit. Bulk download from pb doesn't work. I tried Etsy's suggestion, didn't work for me(but it might be my computer/internet connection). Now on to the tedious process of downloading every single photo individually. 

On 7/6/2017 at 4:59 PM, OriginalOwner said:

+1 kbmb02 ......  rubber turning a nut ??   I dunno ........

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

  

Although it may seem strange, it's entirely possible. Bicycles commonly have the left crank arm fall off if the bolt compressing it to the tapered flange isn't extremely tight and checked occasionally. When pedaling the crank arm can twist or flex a tiny amount and eventually back out the bolt. They're M8 bolts and I frequently tighten them to 80ft/lb or more and re-torque after a few rides. The one I haven't figured out is why square taper cranks with a "square" interface vs a "diamond"(rotated 45 deg, same actual taper) seem to come loose more frequently.