history and reference Interior And Exterior Color Combos?

[GregF]

Hi All,

 

Sorry if this info has been covered or if there is a reference section that I missed. I'm trying to find out if there is a chart or other resource that lists the original interior and exterior color combos. In other words; Did certain exterior colors only come with certain interior colors. I have an Atlantic Blue tii with saddle brown interior. Was the an original color combo or would the interior have been black? Or could have been either one?

 

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[A.D.D.]

WOW! I REALLY like that combo! 

[Conserv]

Greg,

I agree with A.D.D.: I really like the Atlantic with brown interior.

That said, the answer to your question regarding whether only specific interior colors were available for a given exterior color is "maybe, maybe not"!

I have Farben und Polster brochures for the square taillight era (dated 9/73, 2/74, and 2/75). Atlantic disappears after the 2/74 brochure, but the "factory recommended" interior for Atlantic in both the 9/73 and 2/74 brochures is gray. That said, "factory recommended" didn't seem to preclude other choices. What determined interior color, in my opinion, was what was ordered. But, with the exception of a tiny sampling of European-delivery '02s, the U.S. retail buyer was not ordering the car. The sole U.S. importer, Hoffman Motors up to early '75, BMW NA thereafter, ordered the cars. The U.S. retail buyer was simply choosing from the cars ordered by the importer.

(And don't read too much of these square taillight recommendations into your round taillight. I suspect the shift from medium brown interiors to beige interiors, which accompanied the square taillight evolution, likely dictated some shifts in recommended interior colors.)

Thus, U.S. cars do not represent the full range of possibilities, and factory recommendations were frequently ignored. For instance, the factory-recommended interior color for Malaga and Granatrot, per the 9/73, 2/74, and 2/75 brochures, was gray. But gray is rare in the U.S., and most square tailight Malaga and Granatrot cars I've seen came to the U.S. with beige interiors. Therefore, Hoffman and even BMW NA were not following the factory recommendation, for whatever reason: perceived marketability, availability of materials, the boss's taste, whatever!

And for some reason, Atlantic seemed to have been rare in the Northeast where I grew up and lived for 50 years. I saw just a few back in the day. My gut says that your brown interior could certainly be original to an Atlantic car. Could some Atlantic cars have been built with black interiors? Certainly, but dark blue and black is certainly, in my opinion, a less interesting or attractive combination. And don't expect BMW archives to have the interior color for your car. Which may leave you wondering, is your interior original to your car? It may be impossible to prove or disprove, unless you have a window sticker!

Regards,

Steve

Edited July 7, 2014 by Conserv

[Mike Self]

I presume your car is a Roundie--probably a 72 or '73.  If not, that's not the correct interior for it.  Squarelights didn't come with that color interior, and the upholstery pattern is not what was used in squarelights.

 

I've never seen a roundie Atlantic car with either a tobacco (early) or saddle (later, what you have) interior.  I thought they were all black.  That being said, there's no telling what the factory might have done, regardless of what the sales brochures say.  Your car might have been a special order by military or diplomatic personnel stationed overseas and not ordering through Hoffman Motors.  Or of course a PO may have swapped out the interior.  

 

What year is your car?  That may answer some questions--all I can see is that it appears to have a one-piece (squarelight) dash, but those have been swapped out.

 

cheers

mike

[danco_]

Don't know if this helps, but I recently acquired a factory Atlantik 1971 BMW 1600. It came with a black interior. 

 

I checked with BMW AG and they said the color combination is correct and as ordered by Hoffman. 

[Kronos]

I too have never seen an Atlantik with anything but a black interior.  Maybe a repaint on top of Malaga or Sahara?  This car appears to be a Tii; as I recall all Tiis had chrome seat hinges whereas this one has the standard black hinges. Maybe not germane but may be a clue.

[Conserv]

Don't know if this helps, but I recently acquired a factory Atlantik 1971 BMW 1600. It came with a black interior.

I checked with BMW AG and they said the color combination is correct and as ordered by Hoffman.

Ryan,

I've not yet seen BMW archives even admit that they have records of interior colors by VIN prior to the BMW NA days (early '75). If they told you that their records show your specific car (by VIN) came with a black interior, that is a "game changer" in my opinion, and creates the opportunity for lots of '02 owners to unambiguously verify their cars' original interior colors. (As an aside, some other car manufacturers do retain interior color by VIN, not only into the '60s, but into the '50s.)

So...did BMW Archives say (a.) your VIN came with a black interior, or (b.) it's likely that your VIN came with a black interior because that was the factory-recommended combination. The latter choice would indicate that their records from this era do not track interior color by VIN but they are relying, rather, on common color combinations.

Thanks and regards,

Steve

Edited July 3, 2014 by Conserv

[Mike Self]

To clarify Kronos' comment on the seat hinges being chrome or black:  All roundie 2002s with reclining seats (that is all US spec cars as reclining seats were one of Hoffman's "non-optional options") came with chrome recliner mechanisms until sometime in late 1971 or early 1972.  At that time the factory started switching to black painted recliners, probably as a cost-cutting measure (the mark was rising rapidly against the dollar then, making BMWs ever more expensive).  

 

As is typical with the factory, there wasn't a changeover at a certain VIN; they just used up their stock of chrome recliner seats in each color, and as they ran out, switched over to black.  I've seen cars with higher VINs and chrome recliners than cars with black recliners in a different color.  This changeover took place mostly during the 1972 model year....does anyone have a '71 with black recliners who can confirm their car has its original front seats?  Parts book doesn't help here...

 

cheers

mike

[MikeWooldridge]

I've owned two 71's. My first was an early one with chrome hinge covers and my late '71 had black.

[LarsAlpina]

According to my 1972 and 1978 paper ETKs the chrome hinges were changed to black at these VINs on US spec cars:

1602: 1 572 931

2002: 2 572 070

 

Headrests were changed from the old style with 10mm rods

 

 

to the newer style with 12mm rods and the "ears"

 

 

according to ETK for US spec cars at these VINs:

- 2002: 2 588 022

- 2002 automatic: 2 533 760

- 2002tii: 2 763 352

 

I don´t know if that is 100% true as I have found not a small number of mistakes already in the early releases of the ETK (not to speak of the actual digitized ones).

 

Regards, Lars.

Edited March 22, 2014 by LarsAlpina

[Conserv]

Lars,

As usual, that's great information! I'm assuming "ETK" is a German acronym for "parts listing"? (?Ersatz Teile Karte?)

Thanks and best regards,

Steve

[John_in_VA]

I'm assuming "ETK" is a German acronym for "parts listing"? (?Ersatz Teile Karte?)

Elektronische Teilekatalog

[Conserv]

Elektronische Teilekatalog

Vielen dank!

[LarsAlpina]

Sorry Steve,

 

would have been better if I would have written just TK for the old paper catalogues. But as I use a pdf-scan of them on my computer they´re at least electronic in some way.

 

 

Normally in pre-computer times BMW used microfiches. The smaller dealers not having a reading device for those were equipped with Behelfskataloge (something like makeshift catalogue in english) printed on paper. Those were loose-leaf binders the dealers had to regularly update with fresh pages sent to them by BMW.

 

Teilekatalog / Elektronischer Teilekatalog = parts catalogue / electronic parts catalogue

 

If you copy and paste the german terms into www.dict.cc you can listen how the words are pronounced in german language. Maybe type in Bayrische Motorenwerke and BMW also, might be fun to listen to for people from US. We don´t say "ohtoo" either, we say null (like bull) zwy (Nullzwei).

 

Regards, Lars.

Edited March 22, 2014 by LarsAlpina

[Conserv]

Sorry Steve,

 

would have been better if I would have written just TK for the old paper catalogues. But as I use a pdf-scan of them on my computer they´re at least electronic in some way.

 

Teilekatalog.jpg

 

Normally in pre-computer times BMW used microfiches. The smaller dealers not having a reading device for those were equipped with Behelfskataloge (something like makeshift catalogue in english) printed on paper. Those were loose-leaf binders the dealers had to regularly update with fresh pages sent to them by BMW.

 

Teilekatalog / Elektronischer Teilekatalog = parts catalogue / electronic parts catalogue

 

If you copy and paste the german terms into www.dict.cc you can listen how the words are pronounced in german language. Maybe type in Bayrische Motorenwerke and BMW also, might be fun to listen to for people from US. We don´t say "ohtoo" either, we say null (like bull) zwy (Nullzwei).

 

Regards, Lars.

Thanks, Lars,

All the BMW dealers I dealt with in the '70s had microfiche readers already (even under Hoffman Motors). Somewhere around here I have a set of microfiche plates one dealer was replacing with an updated version. But it's not particularly useful without an accessible reader!

Two years of German in high school, two years of German in college, 6 great-grandparents that spoke German: I've got a great German accent, but I still don't have any vocabulary to back it up. I ask a perfectly-prepared question like a native, but when the answer comes, Ich glaube nicht ein Wort zu verstehen!

So back to English...

Best regards,

Steve