engine and drivetrain Pro Tips? Normal Lateral Play On Timing Chain

[gliding_serpent2]

Very soon i will be bringing my car to a local shop (sadly no 02 specialists in the area). Any tips would be appreciated... Unless you tell me to pull the motor. I understand this is a rad out job, but my issue is the procedure for the continuous chain.

New gaskets top and bottom this spring, and new just about everything else also. Will any gaskets not be reusable?

Update. How much lateral play is normal on a timing chain?

Edited October 10, 2013 by gliding_serpent

[Guest_anonymous]

what gaskets will be reusable?

Edited October 8, 2013 by daron

[FB73tii]

Well if you had all new gaskets and seals then the front seal is fine and the valve cover gasket can be re-used. The real question is how much the head gasket get messed up when pulling the upper and lower timing covers. Even on a new build some gasket material will come off. Likely fine with a bit of RTV, but a head stock gasket is only $29 @ RME. At a minimum you'll need the four front timing cover gaskets ($1/each) and an oil pan gasket.

 

--Fred '69 & '74tii

[jimk]

Well if you had all new gaskets and seals then the front seal is fine and the valve cover gasket can be re-used. The real question is how much the head gasket get messed up when pulling the upper and lower timing covers. Even on a new build some gasket material will come off. Likely fine with a bit of RTV, but a head stock gasket is only $29 @ RME. At a minimum you'll need the four front timing cover gaskets ($1/each) and an oil pan gasket.

 

--Fred '69 & '74tii

Plus labor to install in $29 head gasket and end up with a ripped up pan gasket.

[c.d.iesel]

USUALLY / MOST / replacement timing chains come with master link

so it's easy. Install the clip with the opening end of the clip in the trailing

side of the master - not on the leading side of the master link

[gliding_serpent2]

USUALLY / MOST / replacement timing chains come with master link

so it's easy. Install the clip with the opening end of the clip in the trailing

side of the master - not on the leading side of the master link

I just ordered a continuous chain to replace the old one because I had a new chain with a master link and two f#@&ing little 6mm e clips that I found in my oil post track w/e. They were from the master link.  Had I known more on the subject when I was getting parts for the rebuild, or had my builder known better, I would have gone with a continuous chain from the start.  Learning can be expensive.  St least the chain never failed. 

 

Magically now all distributors don't stock or suggest master link timing chains given my story.  I will check my receipts and track down the seller and let them know of the failure.  Best they not sell more. 

[gliding_serpent2]

Plus labor to install in $29 head gasket and end up with a ripped up pan gasket.

cost of getting someone unfamiliar with these cars to do the work... priceless. 

 

Local guy who works on old cars is a 2mth + wait.  Guy in city who did post rebuild tuning a 1.5hr trailer ride, but likely best option. 

Edited October 9, 2013 by gliding_serpent

[c.d.iesel]

GOOD type

bad type

==================================================================

best - requires special crimp tool to flare

pin ends

Edited October 9, 2013 by c.d.iesel

[gliding_serpent2]

GOOD type

bad type

==================================================================

best - requires special crimp tool to flare

pin ends

very helpful! Thanks.

Do you know if the tool is universal? Could i crimp the chain i have now? Or fo you know where i could get such a crimp friendly chain?

[FB73tii]

I don't see the tool on the SG Autosport site but you can rent it for $80 here:

http://www.automotivespecialtytool.net/detail.php?id=145

 

Description:Timing Chain Master Link Crimping Tool. Used to Replace the master Link in the Timing Chain on many German and Swedish Cars including Mercedes, Saab and BMW. Matches Mercedes Benz Part # 602589003900

 

--Fred

[kbmb02]

Interesting thread.

 

My new race engine has what C.D. labels the 'bad' type on a single-row timing chain, and I'm pretty-sure my previous race engine did as well (6 seasons, never broke ... was still winning when I sent it to stud). Lucky, maybe. -KB

[c.d.iesel]

any type of master link can be bad if

the clips are molested, lose fitting,

installed in the wrong direction.....

[gliding_serpent2]

any type of master link can be bad if

the clips are molested, lose fitting,

installed in the wrong direction.....

I guess this is another reason to pop everything off to have a look-see (and thus just add s continuous chain. Clip direction aside, i want to be sure clips are not a symptom of something more sinister.

[gliding_serpent2]

What would you guys call a normal amount of lateral play on a two row chain? Mine has about 1-1.5mm. Just trying to figure out why the clips failed, assuming proper install. If my memory serves, the gears were reused (100k miles on them, not a hard 100 miles). Wondering if maybe they should not of been, thus the chain had too much lateral play, thus eventually forcing loose the clips.

I will look at the chain for signs of wear when the tupper timing cover is off.

[KFunk]

I'm very interested in what you find, as I currently have the same timing chain on my car.  I put new sprockets on mine, and mine has been through around 7K miles, 2 autocrosses, and recently a trip to NE Wisconsin and back, and its still holding fine.  But this worries me, and I may replace it with a continuous chain.  I hate to take things back apart, though.  Just tired of working on this car.

 

I sent a message to Iwis (the chain manufacturer), and asked them if their chains had been thoroughly tested on M10s, etc., and sent them a link to our previous discussion:

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/145545-this-cant-be-good-mystery-clips-from-timing-chain-master-link/

 

I was hoping that they'd cite their testing process, reliability, possible explanations for the failure, etc.

This is all I got:

 

Good morning Kevin,

                Iwis always reccomends Endless timing chains (no master link at all) in any racing or modified applications.

                Please let me know if you require any assistance in locaitng the correct endless chain.

 

Kind regards,

 

James Critchlaw

National Sales Manager

Atlantic IM & Export Corp.

220B Meister Ave

Branchburg NJ 08876

908 595 0007 (P)

908 595 0709 (F)

 

P.S. we represent Iwis in distribution and customer service for North America

 

Not exactly confidence inspiring is it?  Of course my car is modified and used for racing.  Yay.....

Edited October 11, 2013 by KFunk