Thank you. i have that type puller, but the opening at max is still too small to get over the joint. also, the bottom of the joint is not FLAT, that's where the problem comes in, nothing to grab on. the pickle fork, rented from pepboys with various sizes but, the fork tangs themselves are too thick to get in between the joint and the control arm, too even get it started. i'm heading for oxy/ace torch and more persuasion muscle. thanks people.