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granth

140hp at wheels with M10

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What does it take to make about 140hp at the wheels, if you assume this bottom end and 38/38 weber

Bottom end:

2.0l block, crank, (knife edge) rebuilt rods and balanced, cast 9.5 tii pistons

Cam? how much to shave the head to increase compression?, head porting? (current head e12)

Does this look possible with bottom end and 38/38 weber? Or do you start over with new bottom end...

TIA

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I don't know about hp numbers but the (very typical) bottom end you're describing with a genuine Schrick 292 cam feels REALLY strong. We've built a few of these and they really pull well. Don't machine the head much. It alters valve timing slightly. Better to go to 10:1 pistons if you want more compression imo.

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I'm afraid it's too much to ask from your weber. Dual Webers and the receipt mentioned above should give about that. Knife edging or porting is not needed. Just matched ports, compressions minimum 9.5:1, Schrick 292 or 304, dual webers, header, distributor with good advance curve. Never head shaving for CR, if needed then new pistons.

That's just the target that can be reached with reasonable money and without compromising driveability and service interval or lifetime of engine.

Tommy

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140 at the wheels means about 160hp at the motor. Or something like that.

Norm

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Guest Anonymous

140 at the rear wheels for a 2L M10 is not likely. The flywheel HP with 15% loss for 140 at the RW is 165HP. That is 82.5HP/L. To see what you are up against to get to 82.5HP/L an Alfa 2.0L dual overhead cam dual siddraft webers 9-1CR produces 75.4HP/L. A 911S Porche produces 77.3HP/L.

Huffing and Puffing a lot, doing just about everything and still have a car you can drive on the street ,CAM(292), Porting, CR increase, Side Drafts, good header you may get 127HP at the rear wheels. That would be 75HP/L at the flywheel.

Fun to Imagine though.

Have fun

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m10 heads flow quite well though.

check out www.bmw2002.co.uk

there is an alpina 2002(1600?) in there with 165 horsepower exactly. with sidedrafts, a cam, and increased compression

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I am no expert at this, so better to listen to the guys like Chris who work on these engines. Ray Korman told me many years ago that the max the stock head would flow is about 150 hp. Perhaps with headwork, you can get to your number, but seems high to me. My former white 75 that had a Korman stg2 engine (twin 40's, 9.5 pistons, 292 cam) dyno'ed a little less than 150 (147, I think) at the crank. and a little less than 130 at the wheels as I recall. It's been a while, but I think that is correct.

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I'd leave the head alone and go turbo.

You can well surpass your goal on a stock turbo engine. Ditch the duals add some injection, little electronics to control it, little to lots of tuning and voila hp.

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So maybe just do the M20 swap 171hp stock at the crank and will run and run, just change the timing belt....

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I've never figured out why anyone really cares so much about an absolute number.

I've been watching too much Top Gear, and really, going from 450 to

500 horsepower, you just aren't going to be able to tell. Good tires,

well, that will make a real difference if you had rocks before.

The biggest horespower failure is that it's really just a single number.

And you're trying to describe 2 or 3 dimensions with it...

If I had 150 hp at 2500 rpm all the way up to 7500, I'd have a rocket.

But if the darned thing didn't make anything until 5500, I'd have a dog.

(a dog good for racing, but that'd be about it)

Same number, completely different motor.

And that's why you want an M20. You could get that number out of an M10,

but only in a few places. An M20- especially one with a bit of breathing-

will give you your number at 3500 rpm, and exceed it all the way through

6k. And the smile on your face will be mighty.

So I recommend an M20 with a bit of cam, new rockers, slightly uprated

valve springs and a mild port- n- polish and a good multi- angle valve job...

and eventually megasquirt.

Or an S2000 motor. Or an SR20DET. Or any of the small aluminum V8's.

good luck!

t

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Yeah it's not so much needing 450hp, but the 110hp wheel on the track with the M10 just is not getting done any more for me. So sounds like you can get there with and M10, but at what cost and durability? With a mild M20 that will run and run and run seems like you would be smiles ahead?

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