engine and drivetrain 1600 mechanical clutch linkage- wa

[Guest Anonymous]

Has anyone installed a 5 speed in their 1600 with the mechanical linkage.

It seems like it would be easier than converting to hydraulic?

I just pulled the engine and tranny out of my 1600 getting ready to install a 5 speed and Megasquirt.

[tjones02]

The overdrive 5 speeds do not allow for the mechanical clutch linkage.... Very different clutch operation in those transmissions. Sorry, you'd have to convert the pedal cluster to a hydraulic clutch one to do the 5 speed conversion.

Theoretically it may be possible to cut a hole in the bell housing of a 245 or 240 5 speed for the '02 style clutch fork; but it is theory at best. I've never heard of it being done.

Oh, if your motor is still using a 200mm 6 bolt flywheel you'll also have to have a machinist specially modify the 200mm flywheel to accept a 215mm pressure plate. (ask me details) There is no known throwout bearing with the correct length that allows the use of one of the overdrive 5 speeds with the 200mm clutch, only the 215mm and 228mm. The 200mm flywheel can be machined to accept a 215 but not a 228....

Unless you mean to convert to an '02 close ratio 5 speed trans... that'll work fine. :b...

HTH

[c.d.iesel]

[Guest Anonymous]

I think it will work. The engine is from a 2002. The clutch linkage goes through the hole where the slave cylinder would be. Everything lines up. I should be doing some test fitting later this week and will post the results.

Not sure what you mean it is different.

I have been working on these for about 20 years now and have 4 of them, 1 1600 and 2 2002's.

Just wondering if anyone had done it before, and I don't want to change the pedal box just yet. (yes I have a spare to put in if needed)

[tjones02]

I think it will work. The engine is from a 2002. The clutch linkage goes through the hole where the slave cylinder would be. Everything lines up. I should be doing some test fitting later this week and will post the results.

Not sure what you mean it is different.

I have been working on these for about 20 years now and have 4 of them, 1 1600 and 2 2002's.

Just wondering if anyone had done it before, and I don't want to change the pedal box just yet. (yes I have a spare to put in if needed)

Like I said in my first reply....

The overdrive 5 speeds do not allow for the mechanical clutch linkage........ Unless you mean to convert to an '02 close ratio 5 speed trans... that'll work fine.

What type of 5 speed are you using? Close ratio or overdrive????? You did not answer this question....

The only five speed that will work with a mechanical clutch 02er is the Getrag 235/5 close ratio unit with 1st gear to the left and below reverse...

BUT... be sure the block you are using has the threaded mounting holes for the clutch pivot bracket.

[mattdanchris]

I have some questions about this topic. Per Tom Jones prior post.

"Oh, if your motor is still using a 200mm 6 bolt flywheel you'll also have to have a machinist specially modify the 200mm flywheel to accept a 215mm pressure plate. (ask me details) There is no known throwout bearing with the correct length that allows the use of one of the overdrive 5 speeds with the 200mm clutch, only the 215mm and 228mm. The 200mm flywheel can be machined to accept a 215 but not a 228...."

I am doing a 5 speed into a 69 1600 cabriolet. It still has the mechanical clutch, but has a 2002 TI engine. The flywheel is held on with 8 bolts, but the clutch disk is 200mm (6 bolts on the pressure plate). I am going to use a Getrag 240 trans 1983 with mechanical speedo (I know the 245 is preferred, but I have the 240 and the shortened drive shaft). I am rebuilding a pedal box and will be using the hydraulic clutch. What do I need as far as the clutch (pressure plate, disk and throw out bearing and flywheel)?

Thanks,

Carl

[Slavs]

Tom,

I heard that the 1600 200mm clutch disk and pressure plate will actually work with the 320 5 speed overdrive once you replace the pedal box to include the hydraulic actuation.

I posed this question on this forum and a guy responded that he did a couple of conversions like this.

Why I think it may work:

Both the 320i with 5 speed overdrive and the square light 02's used the same 215mm clutch assemblies. The throwout bearings for the 2 cars are almost identical. They are the same critical height, but only differ in the manner in which the actuation fork is fitted to the bearing.

Now! the 200mm clutch assembly from the 1600 uses the identical throwout bearing as the one described above for the square light (74-76) 02s. So that means that the 320i throwout bearing must work as well with the 200mm clutch assembly.

Given:

A = 320i Throwout Bearing

B = 2002 (74-76) Throwout Bearing

C= 1600 Throwout Bearing

D = 215mm Clutch Disk and Pressure Plate

If A works with D

and B works with D

Given that B & C are identical (B=C)

Then C must also work with D

I'm going to try this in the not so distant future in my red car.

Slavs

Slavs

[mattdanchris]

Slavs,

Thanks for your response. If I understand what you just stated, all I really need to get is a throw out bearing for the 1983 240 Getrag (320). I realize I need to modify the shifter plate, linkage and trans mount. The pressure plate and 200mm clutch disk from my 4 speed are almost new and I am putting in a rebuilt pedal box with a master cylinder. Is that correct? Is there just one throw out bearing for the 240 trans?

Thanks,

Carl

[Slavs]

I think I figured out the Flywheel / clutch components you have on yourr 69 2002Ti motor. It seems that somebody had bolted on to your motor the 1970-72 1600 Flywheel which has 8 bolts with the corresponding 1600 200mm clutch components. All earlier 1600 flywheels had 8 bolts to bolt on to the earlier 6 bolt cranks. The 1600 clutch set-up is too small for the 2.0 liter engine. I would at least get the 215mm clutch set-up. With this set-up, you will need the throwout bearing that came with the 215mm clutch on the 80-83 320i. You will probably need to obtain a new flywheel that comes with the 215mm set-up. Your flywheel might work, but only if it is the same thickness as the 215mm flywheel and all the bolts for the 215mm pressure plate match. Anoher alternative is to use the more expensive 228mm set-up. For a 5 speed application of the 228mm the throwout bearing you will need is from another BMW ( I can't recall if it is the 323 or something else. Do some research on this. I'm sure it is in earlier posts)

[Slavs]

Correction:

All Earlier 1600s (66-69) have the 6 bolt flywheel and corresponding crank.

Later 1600s (70-72 or through 76 in Europe) 1600s have the 8 bolt flywheel and corresponding crank.

Slavs

[mattdanchris]

Things seem to be getting more complex. Are you saying I should get the larger clutch (215 or 228) because it won't work, or because you feel it is too small and will not hold up on the larger motor (it has worked for 25 years and did not slip) Does anyone know the thickness of the 215 flywheel so I can compare it to mine? Also, you mention the 80 to 83 throw out bearing. Is that the same as the one for the 1983 Getrag 240 trans that I am using (not the 245).

Thanks for the help.

Carl

[mattdanchris]

Does anyone have the measurement for the diameter of the dowel pins on the flywheel of a 215 mm pressure plate (not the actual pins, but a number around 225 mm). I need to compare my 200mm pressure plate to the 215mm. Someone said a 215mm will fit onto the same pins as a 200mm. My flywheel has 8 bolts. If this is true, I will get the new throw out bearing and give it a try.

Thanks,

Carl

[mattdanchris]

bump

[Slavs]

I think the 215mm set-up is the way to go because it is designed for the 2.0 liter motor and because it is the most economical. Also, there are no fitment issues. As far as the 240 Trans, i don't know much about it. I'm familiar with the 245. I think the 320i's with the 240 trans also used the 215mm clutch. The 1600 clutch components are really expensive. A 200mm pressure plate will cost you $300 if you can find one. For that money you can probably get the 215mm complete clutch set-up including flywheel. 215mm flywheels are very common, and you can probably get a good used one for little money.

Slavs