engine and drivetrain Perfect 2002 weight balance...

[Guest Anonymous]

Is 50/50 front to rear weight balance possible? With so many people swapping engines these days ,I'm curious what has been achieved with stock and non stock powerplants. Does anyone have 50/50 balance (or better!)? How did you do it ? How much worse or better is the balance on your monster engined '02? Street or track cars.. Thanks,I need some inspiration on my project.

[steve k.]

With adjustable hight suspencion you can balance the weight any way you want. But what yoiu should be looking for is not 50/50 front/rear, but equel cross weights. That is where you want the balance.

Steve k

[creede]

I'd love to hear how the M20 swapped guys are doing...

From what I can figure the M20 is around 70lbs heavier than a M10. Seems like a carbon fiber hood (-30lbs) and a battery relocation (-20lbs?) and ditch the front bumper should get you back to a good balance.

[Guest Anonymous]

Steve, I'm in total agreement of the importance of equal cross weight(left to right I assume), but you can't change the totals much on the front and rear ends and getting close to 50/50 is going to better for handling and traction. Unless I don't understand physics(which is possible)you won't be able to transfer (much) weight from one end of the car to the other unless you raised or lowered one end a lot.

[kbmb02]

To get it right, talk to Dan, the (cross-weight) Magic Man:

http://www.depraceprep.com

[Guest Anonymous]

Forgive me if I am not communicating well. I am not talking about optimizing the corner weights , I am talking about front to rear balance dictated by where the center of gravity is. Moving the batt from front to rear or moving the engine back in the chassis would affect this . You are not going to change a 54/46 front to rear car to 50/50 with adj suspension. I am not all asking about left to right wether it's front to rear or straight across.

[kbmb02]

Forgive me if I am not communicating well. I am not talking about optimizing the corner weights , I am talking about front to rear balance dictated by where the center of gravity is. Moving the batt from front to rear or moving the engine back in the chassis would affect this . You are not going to change a 54/46 front to rear car to 50/50 with adj suspension. I am not all asking about left to right wether it's front to rear or straight across.

I believe what's being suggested is that for improved handling, both F/R ratio and corner balance are important factors. So when moving weight (ie: a battery) from front to rear, there may be advantages to placing it on a particular side (in the rear of the car) - you can improve front-to-rear ratio AND the overall center of gravity / corner balance.

As you might imagine, cars with a coil over set-up allow for more adjustment (than stock a suspension). I've got a strategically-placed hunk of lead in the back of my race car to balance it, because class rules dictate we can only use coilovers up front.

"HTH" -KB

[oldguy]

Forgive me if I am not communicating well. I am not talking about optimizing the corner weights , I am talking about front to rear balance dictated by where the center of gravity is. Moving the batt from front to rear or moving the engine back in the chassis would affect this . You are not going to change a 54/46 front to rear car to 50/50 with adj suspension. I am not all asking about left to right wether it's front to rear or straight across.

with a 4" lift in the front you are....

[peteinjp]

With adjustable hight suspencion you can balance the weight any way you want. But what yoiu should be looking for is not 50/50 front/rear, but equel cross weights. That is where you want the balance.

Steve k

Because this promotes the same handling characteristics in right and left handed cornering. It seems that most strip the car to under minimum weight ir possible and then add weight to get closer to equal balance. Is seems one often forgotten advantage of shifting weight to the rear is improved overall braking due to the rear wheels being able to do more of the work.

[Guest Anonymous]

So what I'm gathering here is not very many people are attempting this. I for one would like my '02 to understeer less and have more rear traction , espacially without running savage camber angles.I guess I'm on my own. Oh, and you would have to raise one end a lot more than 4" to change f to r balance much. When I'm scaling motorcycles at my shop if I have one end 3" higher than the other, the weight on the low side only goes up a couple pounds , and that is a way shorter wheelbase, so the angle of the vehicle is steeper.Plus no way am I going to drive around with the front of my car a foot in the air !I still think that somebody must 50/50, who are you? Enjoy whatever you are celebrating today!

[dubois]

I know a couple guys (and you know who you are), that achieved perfect 50/50 weight distribution, they just carry a lot of tools in their trunk!

Now back to the real answer, I would say it would be physically impossible to achieve the so call 50/50 static weight balance on a 2002, without severe modifications to the chassis. Just to illustrate, no matter which car, I am more inclined to put my foot under the rear tires than the front ones.

I have driven several 2002's that are pretty close to neutral steering though, and pushing the throtle slightly will induce some serious oversteering. On my limited knowledge of the subject, when I drive my own car I point the nose wider and the car will always follow a tighter turn, how that happens? It beats me! I know, my car is far from being 50/50.

[kbmb02]

An example: My race car scales at 50.2/49.8....

And that's with a fiberglass hood, LEXAN® windshield (now available - email me!), battery relocation, no wipers, gutted interior and doors a 12 gallon fuel cell in the back. Dan at DEP made some adjustment with the front coilovers, but it still required 65 lbs of lead over the rear wheels to achieve that F/R ratio (which also brought me up to legal 2000lb minimum weight).

Happy Christmas, all. Time to play with the new toys. -KB

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks kbmbo2! That sounds like a fun car. Is the lexan windhield durable enough for street use and wipers? How much weight does it save ?

[M3M3]

if you are looking to alter under/oversteer, f/r weight balance is not the holy grail. you need to work with f/r spring rates, sway bars and alignment settings. car balance is a dynamic, not static, thing. there is no setup that is "balanced" in all conditions. auto-x, turn in, steady state cornering, track out, power factors, what kind of differential, tire compound, high speed, etc, etc, etc are all different conditions where the same car may handle very differently. you should read up on vehicle dynamics, decide what conditions you are aiming at and start tuning.

you could put a lot of effort and money into getting to 50/50 f/r and the car could still handle like crap.

[neanderthal]

if you are looking to alter under/oversteer, f/r weight balance is not the holy grail. you need to work with f/r spring rates, sway bars and alignment settings. car balance is a dynamic, not static, thing. there is no setup that is "balanced" in all conditions. auto-x, turn in, steady state cornering, track out, power factors, what kind of differential, tire compound, high speed, etc, etc, etc are all different conditions where the same car may handle very differently. you should read up on vehicle dynamics, decide what conditions you are aiming at and start tuning.

you could put a lot of effort and money into getting to 50/50 f/r and the car could still handle like crap.

Nuff said.