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02mann

tii will not squirt :(

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Hey,

I have installed kugelfischer fuel injection and now I have little problem...

Backround:

I have installed full tii fuel injection system to my regular 2002. Installation is done with OEM pars and is just like original tii.

Only difference with original tii and my 2002 is that I use e30 in tank electric fuel pump.

Problem:

Fuel is not squirting out of the pump while cranking.

Tests I already made:

I measure the fuel pressure coming to pump with very very ugly gauge, The gauge was very rough and pressure seems to be somewhere between 21-36 PSI. I know that 28,4 PSI is correct, I will buy a new fuel pressure gauge to get proper value for pressure.

I removed the pressure valves (number 4 in picture) and figured out that valves are ok.

Also turned on the electric pump while pressure valves were removed and fuel was flowing from the pump.

Is there something that I have not noticed or is the kugelfischer broken :(

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Some pictures might help...

So other than brakes and boxed trailing arms you almost have a tii. Interesting you've chosen this route over the newer EFI conversions.

Anyway, was the pump known to be working before you installed it? The delivery valves may be stuck on the pump if its has sat around for years.

You can also pull a plug and crank it a little to see if there is any fuel from the injectors. They will make a loud audible clicking sound when they fire off.

What about ignition? Timing? Valve Timing? Are they all factory spec? Did you baseline the injection system?

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Thanks for fast reply!

So other than brakes and boxed trailing arms you almost have a tii.

Yes thats true, brakes are already in my garage and I'm searching tii trailing arms. But still I think that brake and trailing arm update should wait for next winter :)

Interesting you've chosen this route over the newer EFI conversions.

I think that Kugelfischer system is great work of engineering art and the only way to make 2002 injected ;)

Anyway, was the pump known to be working before you installed it? The delivery valves may be stuck on the pump if its has sat around for years.

Yes, It should be working. But it was stored in previous owner garage many years before I buy it for me.

You can also pull a plug and crank it a little to see if there is any fuel from the injectors. They will make a loud audible clicking sound when they fire off.

There were no fuel coming from the pressure valves (number 4 in previous post pic) while I crank. The injector pipe was removed from the pump when I cranked. Also the throttle was fully open when I cranked.

What about ignition? Timing? Valve Timing? Are they all factory spec? Did you baseline the injection system?

Everything should be timed correctly. Also when I sprayed the starter spray to throttle while cranking it then engine promised to start. But of course it would not start because kugelfischer is not providing fuel.

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Is the belt on and was oil added to the pump after installation?

Yes the belt is on, I also take the dust cover off and checked that it was turning while I cranked.

The oil supply and return lines were added to the pump. Is this what you meant?

Have you downloaded the troubleshooting manual from http://www.thetiiregister.com/phpmyfaq/index.php?sid=428688〈=en&action=artikel&cat=220444&id=14&artlang=en

It will probably help you to troubleshoot everything.

Thanks! There were lot of information about kugelfischer and help for troubleshooting.

But it did not helped me with my problem :( Still there is no fuel coming out from the kugelfischer pump.

I measured the pressure before kugelfischer it was 29 PSI. Should be ok.

I also checked the suction valves replaced o-rings and everything seems to be ok.

I added few photos from the corner of my carage ;)

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What I meant about the oil is that you need to fill the pump by removing the hex headed plug on top of the pump before you start cranking as the pump will not build pressure without oil.

KC

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What I meant about the oil is that you need to fill the pump by removing the hex headed plug on top of the pump before you start cranking as the pump will not build pressure without oil.

KC

That sounds something that might be my problem.

I'll test that right away in tomorrow morning.

Thank you!

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I noticed in your pictures the thermo-time switch sensor (front of engine on water junction) and your cold start valve (on throttle body) are not connected. Did you also transfer the Bosch timer box that's located on the driver's side firewall?

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A couple of other things...

You need to test your pressure maintenance valve on the back of the pump to make sure it is not stuck open and passing the majority of the fuel back to the tank. I think it is in the tii manual.... also check the screen in the banjo fitting on the front of the pump.

How long has this pump been sitting? The pistons in the head of the pump may be frozen. This is actually pretty common as I have two pumps laying around that had this same issue. If you search the forum for tapping and frozen or something like that I'm sure it will come up for you. You simply remove the 4 hex headed plugs from the pump and carefully remove the suction valves according to the manual (not with a magnet as there is an essential part in the pump that is magnetized) and the seal ring. Fill each with some marvel mystery oil and let it sit for a few days. Make sure that no dirt gets into this area!!!! Once the oil has a chance to do its thing you can push on the pistons carefully why rocking the drive pulley back and forth until they are all free.

KC

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Day behind and no success :)

I filled the pump with oil and it did not helped me at all.

I noticed in your pictures the thermo-time switch sensor (front of engine on water junction) and your cold start valve (on throttle body) are not connected. Did you also transfer the Bosch timer box that's located on the driver's side firewall?

I have second hand tii wiring harness in garage but it is not connected yet. Timer box is still missing, but Im trying to find one.

You need to test your pressure maintenance valve on the back of the pump to make sure it is not stuck open and passing the majority of the fuel back to the tank. I think it is in the tii manual.... also check the screen in the banjo fitting on the front of the pump.

Pressure maintenance valve should be ok, because the electric pump Im using is makes higher pressure than 29PSI and I can measure 29PSI from the front of the pump while cranking. So it seems that pressure maintenance valve regulates pressure to the 29PSI.

How long has this pump been sitting?

Good question, I don't know precise answer. Maybe 5 years.

The pistons in the head of the pump may be frozen. This is actually pretty common as I have two pumps laying around that had this same issue. If you search the forum for tapping and frozen or something like that I'm sure it will come up for you. You simply remove the 4 hex headed plugs from the pump and carefully remove the suction valves according to the manual (not with a magnet as there is an essential part in the pump that is magnetized) and the seal ring. Fill each with some marvel mystery oil and let it sit for a few days. Make sure that no dirt gets into this area!!!! Once the oil has a chance to do its thing you can push on the pistons carefully why rocking the drive pulley back and forth until they are all free.

KC

I removed the suction valves carefully and also I removed the belt. Then I turned pump from pulley and none of the four pistons did not move at all. I also tried lightly push those pistons with screwdriver and pistons did not move at all.

Should those pistons move up and down while I turn from the pulley?

I also attach picture from BMW 2002 fuel injection manual. Picture presents those pistons which are stuck?

Thanks for great help I think Im close to solve the problem!

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Yes those are the pistons. You should fill the area above the pistons with a good penetrating oil to free them up. I would personally let them soak for a few days. Marvel mystery oil seems to be the most popular oil for this.

KC

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Yes those are the pistons. You should fill the area above the pistons with a good penetrating oil to free them up. I would personally let them soak for a few days. Marvel mystery oil seems to be the most popular oil for this.

KC

It helped! Thanks a lot!

I let the pistons, suction valves and pressure valves soak few days is CRC chemical, and after that kugelfischer works well.

kcdonahue, I would offer you a beer if you lives more closer to Finland. =)

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