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Electric fuel pump questions for Webers

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I been reading the archives and found a lot of different ways to go about doing things and I'm wondering if there is a consensus.

I have dual 45DCOE Webers on my car. The PO installed a very LOUD electric fuel pump of unknown orig in the trunk and mounted it against the rear seat and it's powered by a switch mounted down below the drivers seat. For lots of reason, this setup has got to go. Its way too loud, not insulated against the rear seat so it transfers noise directly to the cabin, its mounted above the fuel tank so it could go dry, etc.

I want to mount an electric one that a little bit quieter, hooked into a inertial kill switch and wired off the ignition. I'm sure this has been solved before and I don't want to invent the wheel all over again.

Looking at the archives I see things like a 5 series pump mounted under the chassis to replace the tii pump. Or the E30 fuel tank transfer pump mounted directly into the tank. These all look like nice ways to go, but they are all specifically for the tii models. Understandable, since the normal 02s have a mechanical pump that usually adequate for the task. I see Mesa Performance has a Facet electric pump for carb cars for $58.

Will the tii items like the e30 tank pump work on my car? Any suggestions or comments?

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Hey Cris -

First off... the Alpine M'Sports 944 writing is hilarious...your work?

Anyway - I use one of those cheap cube shaped Facet brand pumps. Sure, they get a bad rap from many, but it's only audible when I turn the ignition key on and wait for my float bowls to fill after a couple days sitting. Once the car is running/idling - you can't hear it above the sound of the intake. I have had NONE of the reliability issues often mentioned with this pump. I DO carry a spare in the trunk, though. Mine's mounted INSIDE the car, under the rear seat. I have a grommeted hole down there for routing the fuel line from the tank. I also have mine suspended on 1/4" rubber mounts to keep vibration/noise down. There are two commonly offered ones - both virtually identical externally. You'll want the lowest pressure version - 2.5-5 psi I think. You can get 'em at NAPA and other "ma n pa" autoparts stores anywhere. $58 is about right. I've easily logged 50K miles on mine with no hiccups. I'd love a cleaner solution some day, but this one has given me no problems. If I caould find a pressure regulator I actually *trust* - then I'd consider the E30 pump perhaps. It's a dandy-clean look!

Here's a photo of mine with the old school (pre 72ish) mechanical pump:

Hey! How did I manage to post my photo in YOUR posting? Weird!

and by the way...I've always been tempted to walk around a car show in a lab coat and whisper: "red pigment has a lower coefficient of friction, thus all parts painted red will make the car faster"

Good Luck!

Paul Wegweiser

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Hi Paul,

Yeah, the Alpine webwriting is all mine. I'm kinda (in)famous in the Porsche club racing circles because I write about all the things that go wrong in racing and cars. You know, all the stuff that everybody has done at least once, but won't admit to it. Its more fun to write about a bone headed thing I just did. I get 20 emails after posting that say, yeah I did that too, but dont' tell anybody :)

Thanks for your experiences with the Facet pump. That helps alot. I like the E30 pump install. That looks very clean and neat. I just don't know if it will work in a non-tii tank. Anyhow, I'm not in a hurry. I'm slowly working on the 2002 as a project car, and there's lots of little things to do. As long as I don't do something stupid like stuff the 944 into a wall, I'll have plenty of time to work on it.

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.....regarding tii and non tii tanks - they are identical stampings (though they both got larger in capacity in late 72 / early 73) with the exception of the additional LARGE hole cut for the tii pickup, and *perhaps* an easily capped off breather/vapor return nipple. I think the E30 pump ass'y fits in the smaller hole (used for sending unit only on tii and sending unit/pickup combo ass'y on non tii). The issue you will have will be PRESSURE. The E30 pump probably delivers 20+ psi. You'll have to choke it down with a regulator - and I'm not sure how well it would react to said choking.

I'm just remembering that you have a 1970 - right? ...hmmmm... different beast - as the filler neck is different (shorter) than 72-74 cars, but I bet the depth is the same....that'll require verification.

HTH!

Paul Wegweiser

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Holly makes a low presure regulator that works well and it has dual outlets. I run it on my 02 with 45's. I also run a Carter vane style pump but its loud. The advantage to it is that it has an internal bypass for the pressure if it gets too high. On the e30 pump I'd be curious to know the pressure it runs at? If its too high I think Barry Grant made a low pressure regulator with a fuel return port? But if I remember it was almost $300!! Definetly keep us posted if the E30 pump works.

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I've done a few Weber side-draft sets on '02s and changed many louder carburetor electric pumps to this one... It's very quiet. It's the same modern design like the ones guys are modifying to fit their Tii's, but with pressure and volume for carburetors. And... it's made by Pierburg, the same company that made the best 2002 mechanical pumps.

Sorry for the sales pitch. I just like these things!

http://catalog.worldpac.com/ibusiness/JSP.v.1.01/quote.jsp?header=http://egermanparts.com/header.txt&footer=http://egermanparts.com/footer.txt&product=912fpmp&partner=ipb&baseurl=http://egermanparts.com/&clientid=egermanparts.com&cookieid=2EG12RTTX2EG12S29R

http://www.egermanparts.com/

E300032433APG.jpg

IMHO... I like using a "Bavaria" mechanical pump... quiet, reliable, a BMW part, and can handle the horsepower. If your head has the boss and camshaft has the lobe to run a mechanical pump.

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,50/page,viewtopic/t,294242/

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Ooohhhh.... I likes!

I'll be on my own "WebDial" account at the shop tomorrow at 8:00 am. I gotta pay for my new clutch pressure plate first though. Nice, simple. Good.

Thanks Mr Jones!

Paul Wegweiser

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Thanks Tom, you convinced me - at least for the short term - I've ordered one and will put it in. Maybe over the winter I'll look into trying to fit the E30 pump, but for now, I'm going to go with the Pierburg.

BTW, this is also a Porsche 912 fuel pump, that will make my other Pcars happy!

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Hey, that's a nice pump, Mr Jones!

Beware the Carter that looks similar- I've had trouble with them both

failing prematurely and leaking straight out of the box...

Mr Gasket makes a knock- off of the Facet pump... which is easy to get.

I have yet to try one.

t

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Good timing for this post!

Thanks Tom for the link. I just ordered one for my conversion. Any idea on the best way to mount? yeah I know in the trunk, but do you happen to have a pic or a tip that you might want to share?

Thanks,

Hamada

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Paul, this is OT, but I really like your Alpina air box. Where did you get it?

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The 912 used a mechanical pump, not electric. Note the non Audi/Pcar/Vdub part # style... the 912 FP is #PCG 108 401 00

IT IS sold for carbureted early 911 though... 901 608 106 00

Crossed SSF to WP to figure this out... SSF shows it as a replacement for the original style "Hardi" pump.

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facet red top, purolator, mitsuba or why don't you use your stock mechanical pump

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I mount them under the car above the right axle, just like a Tii, and use the late metal return line on those cars that have it.

Or on the early cars I've seen electric pumps mounted under the back seat... but I deem that not very safe.

In the trunk next to the tank on the right side... Yes, his one is small enough to fit there.

The design uses the fuel to cool it so I've wrapped the pumps in rubber or dense foam to keep them even quieter.

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I mount them under the car above the right axle, just like a Tii, and use the late metal return line on those cars that have it.

Or on the early cars I've seen electric pumps mounted under the back seat... but I deem that not very safe.

In the trunk next to the tank on the right side... Yes, his one is small enough to fit there.

The design uses the fuel to cool it so I've wrapped the pumps in rubber or dense foam to keep them even quieter.

Excellent.

Thanks,

Hamada

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