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evanc

Ireland M20 Shorty header Fitment Question

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This is a Question for fellow M20 Conversion exhaust experts.

I'm looking at getting a new exhaust and the only headers I know of that will fit are the MSDS shorty headers. I kind of remember someone posting that they tried using the Ireland Shorty Headers and they wouldn't fit?

If anyone has experience with either I'd love to hear about it. I'm also looking at different center resonators so if you have any experience with that send it.

Thanks for reading and look forward to hearing your feedback.

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Hey Evan, here is that post your were looking for....

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,57/page,viewtopic/t,270701

I have MSDS headers and the exhaust was recently fabbed up in mine. Mine go into a custom downpipe, through 2.25" to a magnaflow center res and then through 2.5" out to a Sebring rear muffler. Should have some pics of it posted to my project blog after this weekend.

Engine should fire in a week or so.....if I remember, I will try and capture a sound clip for you.

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...Granted this was about a year and a half ago and they may have changed things. But I remember a flange contacting something, I think it was the frame rail. That's why I ended up with the MSDS units. From what I could tell, both companies were top-notch quality wise. Nice welds, heavy guage steel, big burly flanges, and smooth bends. My system goes from the MSDS header pipes to custom 2-into-1 collectors, then to a 2.25" setup with Magnaflow center res. and rear can. I think it's great sound-wise, but then you've heard my car. I'd also spring for the polished ceramic coating if I were you, bling and longevity. Sweeeeet.

Cheers man!

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i've talked to Jeremy @ ireland about this. i guess they changed the design of their shorties. used to be the same as the msds, i think marty used to supply ireland with them.

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Hey guys,

Thanks for all the responses. After reading all of your posts I think I'm leaning toward the MSDS shorty headers. At least with those I know that they'll fit. I dont' want to have to fuss around if they will fit or not or have to do extra stuff to get them to work.

Powelli I'm in luck that you just finished doing your exhaust. I'm not all that familiar with tubing sizes and I realized that your running 2.25 to 2.5. Would it be un-benifical to have a 3" all the way through? The other question is about the collector. Can you buy those off the shelf? Do you need a shop to fab one? I have a name of a guy that my rally buddies use, but curious what it cost ya to get it done. Is that center res you are running from Ireland? I've got a Magnaflow center res from Ireland, but don't know if it's the same as yours.

JohnN - What's your experience with the down pipes with the MSDS headers? What exhaust set up are you running? You are tracking your car right? Did you do your engine install without cutting the radiator support?

Davin - I have heard your car and it sounds great! With any luck my exhaust will be sounding similar soon! Thanks for the info.

Charley - What exhaust are you running? YOu are planning on running a turbo set up later right? Did you run 3" tubing all the way back?

Thanks for all the info guys.

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If you order the MSDS headers, definitely DO NOT get the downpipes. There is no way they will clear everything (like John said). They'll be happy to sell 'em to you sans downpipes.

Also from everything I read at the time, once you go over 2.25" on the M20 you start to sacrifice torque to gain hp. Since my car is a daily city driver I kept the system at 2.25".

Get in touch with me if you decide to go with Muffler Works in El Cerrito. I won the '$100 in exhaust work' door prize in the CA Melee and I don't think I'll need it anytime soon. It's yours for $50. Cheers!

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If you order the MSDS headers, definitely DO NOT get the downpipes. There is no way they will clear everything (like John said). They'll be happy to sell 'em to you sans downpipes.

Also from everything I read at the time, once you go over 2.25" on the M20 you start to sacrifice torque to gain hp. Since my car is a daily city driver I kept the system at 2.25".

Get in touch with me if you decide to go with Muffler Works in El Cerrito. I won the '$100 in exhaust work' door prize in the CA Melee and I don't think I'll need it anytime soon. It's yours for $50. Cheers!

What up dude? Thanks for replying so quick. I'd be stoked to buy that door prize off of you. Muffler works is exactly where I was going take the 02. Perfect. Did you know it was my birthday or something? Nice work.

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It's Friday, and I'm feeling less than ambitious here at work. Hence the quick reply.

Hit me up with an email or call (415.272.6100) for the exhaust card. Happy to help!

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Here is a discussion on piping for the m20.

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,57/page,viewtopic/t,73891

I decided to model my system after InstructorBill's. Pics will be up shortly.

Currently using two front 325i manifolds with the stock 325i downpipe flanges (to the cat) no catalytic converter 2.25" crush bent pipe into a 2.5" core magnaflow glasspack (think its a 20 inch)back to a 6 inch round 2.5 inch core stainless magnaflow straight through muffler. It's very civilized when I am not getting on it but is very loud when I open her up. It doesn't have any raspy-honda-rice-burner-blat type noises.

I hope to move to 2.25 mandrel bent stainless with a nice high flow collector, similar muffler set up, and a center exit with a dual tip. This will probably be done in about a month.

I am chosing to use the 2.25 inch pipe because it flows well enough to support up to about 215 hp and gives me enough back pressure to leave the low end torque that I want.

As it is not turbocharged, I don't believe that I need any more than this. Turbocharged engines don't require backpressure aft of the compressor/wastegate-- actually better flow/less restriction allows the turbo to create more boost with less spool time. (This is how I understand it-- somebody correct me if I'm wrong)

Good luck gettin' her on the road... you're going to love it.

Bill

1970 02/m20

1997 M3-- bone stock

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i'm running 2.5" all the way back w/straight thru res and muffler. it's loud. i figure if i only drive it once in a while, might as well be heard hehe.

my advice: get the MSDS headers AND the downpipes. benefits: you'll have the correct flanges/gaskets, and you'll need the piping to make a downpipe anyways.

what i did: i just cut, rotated and welded the downpipes to make my own. the sharp bend that comes in the MSDS downpipe is what you'll need anyhow.you'll only need a Y pipe 1 1/8" (i believe) to 2.5" ..or whatever size you're going out back with and a flange to connect to the rear portion.

this is what i did but of course there's more than one way to skin..blahblahblah :)

i made my own Y only because i thought it'd be easier than waiting for one from mail order. not so. im sure you'd have better luck at the muffler shops.

129_2953.jpg

129_2954.jpg

129_2957.jpg

and yes, i know.. that's the flimsiest hanger bracket ever. hahahaha

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That's funny that it was Bill's post about the exhaust. I have his set up i my 02! Looking forward to seein your exhaust.

Thanks!

Here is a discussion on piping for the m20.

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,57/page,viewtopic/t,73891

I decided to model my system after InstructorBill's. Pics will be up shortly.

Currently using two front 325i manifolds with the stock 325i downpipe flanges (to the cat) no catalytic converter 2.25" crush bent pipe into a 2.5" core magnaflow glasspack (think its a 20 inch)back to a 6 inch round 2.5 inch core stainless magnaflow straight through muffler. It's very civilized when I am not getting on it but is very loud when I open her up. It doesn't have any raspy-honda-rice-burner-blat type noises.

I hope to move to 2.25 mandrel bent stainless with a nice high flow collector, similar muffler set up, and a center exit with a dual tip. This will probably be done in about a month.

I am chosing to use the 2.25 inch pipe because it flows well enough to support up to about 215 hp and gives me enough back pressure to leave the low end torque that I want.

As it is not turbocharged, I don't believe that I need any more than this. Turbocharged engines don't require backpressure aft of the compressor/wastegate-- actually better flow/less restriction allows the turbo to create more boost with less spool time. (This is how I understand it-- somebody correct me if I'm wrong)

Good luck gettin' her on the road... you're going to love it.

Bill

1970 02/m20

1997 M3-- bone stock

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Hey Charley - I dig the photos. Thanks for posting them. It definitely gives me a better idea. I'm going to get the MSDS and the downpipes as you suggested. This might sound like a silly question, but do I need a collector as well or is that the y pipe? I know that there are high performance collectors. I've heard on V8s they can get gains up to 15-20HP from the collector.

i'm running 2.5" all the way back w/straight thru res and muffler. it's loud. i figure if i only drive it once in a while, might as well be heard hehe.

my advice: get the MSDS headers AND the downpipes. benefits: you'll have the correct flanges/gaskets, and you'll need the piping to make a downpipe anyways.

what i did: i just cut, rotated and welded the downpipes to make my own. the sharp bend that comes in the MSDS downpipe is what you'll need anyhow.you'll only need a Y pipe 1 1/8" (i believe) to 2.5" ..or whatever size you're going out back with and a flange to connect to the rear portion.

this is what i did but of course there's more than one way to skin..blahblahblah :)

i made my own Y only because i thought it'd be easier than waiting for one from mail order. not so. im sure you'd have better luck at the muffler shops.

129_2953.jpg

129_2954.jpg

129_2957.jpg

and yes, i know.. that's the flimsiest hanger bracket ever. hahahaha

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not a silly question at all. as long as you find a Y that will fit your needs i'd say jump on it. i ordered one thru ireland and it turned out that the two inlets were too far apart so make sure you know what you need and are looking at. not sure if i'm using the right term.. you might have better luck than me by looking at collectors instead of Y-pipes. [shrugs shoulders] good luck!!

another thing i'd do is have it ceramic coated or something. mine looks teribble and is rusting at a couple welds now. i used a 'flame-proof' header paint.

couple more pics

129_29642.jpg

129_2952.jpg

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