Brakes for dual purpose/ITB setup (Considering booster del.)

[winstontj]

Considering booster delete. I've driven the car without the booster engaged and I've been told its similar to the delete. Is this a smart idea?

#1 : Is there a way to increase the pedal's lever arm (somewhere in the linkage - not lengthening the pedal) so that it's not so brutal?

#2 : Does anyone have any photos of a booster delete so I could check it out?

#3 : What exactly do you do to delete the booster? Just put a pipe-like spacer in there? Can you fab an adapter and just shorten a spacer from the pedal linkage to the MC pushrod?

#4 : Closely related - Is it true that the tii booster provides the same "boost" as the standard (as in they share the same interior volume) only they are in a different configuration, meaning the tii is longer and narrower allowing for ITB's and the like? OR is there an actual difference between the two (brake boost wise, not counting the difference in MC)? Another way to re-phrase: I have installed a tii MC on my stock booster. If I "upgrade" to a tii booster will I notice any difference?

TIA,

TJW

Oh, I'm considering a Tilton type dropdown or pop-up pedal assy. but i'm no where near that point. I need a cage before I get the pedals like that and before the cage is the motor, body... etc...

[ClayW]

Does your current non-tii booster work? Mine's blown and I can only wonder what a good one would feel like. Let me know if you still decide to delete it and what you want for it.

There's got to be mechanical way of incresaing the pedal travel.

[slash02]

Does your current non-tii booster work? Mine's blown and I can only wonder what a good one would feel like. Let me know if you still decide to delete it and what you want for it.

There's got to be mechanical way of incresaing the pedal travel.

I've got a spare one. should be good. (a tii owner gave it to me he didn't test, neither did I)

fire me off an email if interested.

[winstontj]

Does your current non-tii booster work? Mine's blown and I can only wonder what a good one would feel like. Let me know if you still decide to delete it and what you want for it.

There's got to be mechanical way of incresaing the pedal travel.

I'll find out this weekend if it works. When I have everything tuned as it should be I can feel/hear a surge when I hit the brake pedal. I just purchased a new booster hose & all the assoicated goodies. Will install this weekend and report back. There wasn't a huge difference between the booster hooked up and not so for all I know it could be blown. It's just a stock booster so *IF* I go with the delete it's up for grabs.

Still wondering how it's done though. Maybe the M20 guys will know? Agreed on the mechanical increasing pedal travel. It can't be that hard as it's all pivot points and levers. Increase one lever arm and you're good to go - only trick is which one, where, how, and HOW MUCH???

[peteinjp]

and brake pads may be the key to a reasonable pedal pressure. I've driven without a working booster and I didn't even know it. That was a long time ago. Once I fixed it I noticed the difference right away. But it wasn't so bad. Of course then i was way into bikes so my legs were in good shape.

[winstontj]

and brake pads may be the key to a reasonable pedal pressure. I've driven without a working booster and I didn't even know it. That was a long time ago. Once I fixed it I noticed the difference right away. But it wasn't so bad. Of course then i was way into bikes so my legs were in good shape.

I was thinking about ditching the booster and going back to the stock smaller bore MC. Seriously the only thing is that I don't even know how to delete the booster so I can't even play around with different options.

Any suggestions??? (and pete U at all interested in one of those inertia switches?)

[norm]

I deleted my booster off my 2000cs and think it was on of the best modifications I did. I love all the extra room for the DCOE's Lots of old sportscar do not have boosters. Boosters are made so old ladies can brake with their toes. The reason why your brakes are so stiff without the boost is not because there is no boost, but because there is a big spring you're pushing against inside the boaster

Step 1: Disconnet booster and rod from brake peddle lever

Step 2: Cut open the brake booster and take out the rod that goes into the MC.

Step 3: Make a plate for the MC to bolt on to.

Step 4: Measure form the MC to the brake peddle lever mount and cut about 4 to 6 inches from the rod and weld back together

I hope this helps.

Norm

[winstontj]

I deleted my booster off my 2000cs and think it was on of the best modifications I did. I love all the extra room for the DCOE's Lots of old sportscar do not have boosters. Boosters are made so old ladies can brake with their toes. The reason why your brakes are so stiff without the boost is not because there is no boost, but because there is a big spring you're pushing against inside the boaster

Step 1: Disconnet booster and rod from brake peddle lever

Step 2: Cut open the brake booster and take out the rod that goes into the MC.

Step 3: Make a plate for the MC to bolt on to.

Step 4: Measure form the MC to the brake peddle lever mount and cut about 4 to 6 inches from the rod and weld back together

I hope this helps.

Norm

Norm,

THANKS! Is this similar to how the shift linkage needs to be shortened in a 5-spd conversion? The two ends are specific to the MC & Brake Linkage so you have to take out your extra from the middle? Also if I do this will I want to go down to the smaller stock 02 MC? Will the tii MC be too much? I still have both so I could easily switch back & forth and figure it out on my own. What type of plate are we talking? Just simply one with the bolt pattern of the brake pedal assembly's 4-bolt pattern and the MC's two bolt pattern? Also how thick and what material should I make this out of? I'm wondering about aluminum rather than steel - but I dould use some 1/4" or 3/8" plate I suppose.

Thanks again,

TJW

[norm]

Exactly! The plate is for the bolt pattern on the MC. If you're good at torching or have a plasma cutter, you can cut out of the front of the old booster the material that has the two bolt pattern.

Norm

[TobyB]

The reason why your brakes are so stiff without the boost is not because there is no boost, but because there is a big spring you're pushing against inside the boaster

PART of the reason is the booster return spring- but part is the hydraulic ratio, too... so if you do the delete, try the stock m/c, but be ready to get something with a bit smaller bore, as the non-boosted brakes take a pretty healthy shove. If you do swap the m/c, be ready to adjust your rear shoes more often...

fwiw,

t

[winstontj]

PART of the reason is the booster return spring- but part is the hydraulic ratio, too... so if you do the delete, try the stock m/c, but be ready to get something with a bit smaller bore, as the non-boosted brakes take a pretty healthy shove. If you do swap the m/c, be ready to adjust your rear shoes more often...

fwiw,

t

Why adjust the rear shoes more often? Ratio? Should I use a proportioning/bias valve? I take it that I probably shouldn't do the delete with a tii mc installed? Any suggestions for fittment of a smaller bore mc?

Thanks for all the help! Oh one more thing - any chance I could pick up another section of linkage or whatever is between the pedal linkage and the MC shaft? Should I just go to the dealership for that or would it be best to fabricate something custom? Also I was thinking... Something styled LIKE a tierod end so that it could be adjusted? Would this be a bad idea? Perhaps using a larger material for the ends and a threaded section for the inside so that it would be adjustable depending on the MC and brake pedal travel/feel? Like how peteinjp suggested putting a dab of weld on the clutch lever to "shim" the TO bearing... I was thinking that it may be a more precise way to adjust rather than measureing like crazy and still having some slop in the pedal when I'm done??

Thoughts on that?

[norm]

If you can get a bad booster from somebody, cut it open and you'll see why you use that part of the rod. It has a small ball on the tip that matches the mating surface of the MC. My rod also had an adjuster for fine tuning.

Norm

[winstontj]

If you can get a bad booster from somebody, cut it open and you'll see why you use that part of the rod. It has a small ball on the tip that matches the mating surface of the MC. My rod also had an adjuster for fine tuning.

Norm

hey norm what or how did you have your adjuster setup and what did you use for your plate/bracket to mount the MC to? Any chance you have some photos?

[peteinjp]

more often may be that the pedal travel will increase a little more as the rear brakes wear. Drums do not self adjust as much discs so as the drums and rear shoes wear it requires the rear wheel cylinders to extend further and thus more volume pushed by the master. A smaller master will means increased travel at the pedal. One possible up side may be better modulation.

[winstontj]

more often may be that the pedal travel will increase a little more as the rear brakes wear. Drums do not self adjust as much discs so as the drums and rear shoes wear it requires the rear wheel cylinders to extend further and thus more volume pushed by the master. A smaller master will means increased travel at the pedal. One possible up side may be better modulation.

SO the $20,000 question is what MC can I use for a smaller bore than the stock 2002 mc? I'm running a tii currently and do plan on going back to stock MC when I switch over to e30 318i EFI & MS. At that point I'll also dump the booster because the install will be easier. So if the stock MC is way too hard (my girlfriend also has to drive the car) then I'll need something smaller... thoughts??? 1600? Something custom/non-BMW?