Vented front brake upgrade. Questions

[mhinsle]

I bought my first BMW a month ago and I am doing a rolling restoration to make it a good daily driver. I have a clarifacation of some things.

First I have read the FAQ about the front brake upgrade completely several times. But I still have a few questions:

My vehicle is a 1971 2002 non tii

What is the difference between the 77-79 320i and the 80-83 320i?

For the tii upgrade why are the front hubs only 77-79

but for non-tii only 80-83? I dont see a difference.

Why are the rotors only 77 vented rotors? Why not other years

vented rotors. Cant the stock 320i calipers be used with 320i vented rotors on a 320i front hub?

Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

I have a complete parts car 1981 320i and I would like to know what parts can be used for the front brake upgrade. Thanks

Matthew, San Jose, CA

[Guest Anonymous]

...tii and early 320i hubs have larger bearings. I believe 77 may be the only year for the vented E21 323i rotors, at least the only year with the correct width and offset for the E12 528 callipers used in combination with tii struts.

Fred '73 tii RIP 74 project

[dlhoovler]

What is the difference between the 77-79 320i and the 80-83 320i?

Many, but the main ones (early listed first in each case): 2L vs. 1.8L, 4-spd vs. 5-spd, 3.64 diff vs. 3.91 diff, tii-style intake vs. E30 318-style intake, I think tii-size front wheel bearings vs. smaller carbed '02 ones, lever vs. rotary heater controls, probably many others.

For the tii upgrade why are the front hubs only 77-79

but for non-tii only 80-83? I dont see a difference.

See the difference above; they use different size wheel bearings to match different spindle sizes.

Why are the rotors only 77 vented rotors? Why not other years

vented rotors.

As I understand it, 1977 was the only year US 320s had vented rotors. Other years were solid.

Cant the stock 320i calipers be used with 320i vented rotors on a 320i front hub?

Yes, but note the distinctions above and also note that 320i calipers are single-line, not dual-line like 2002s. You'll need a new master cylinder and new hard lines to make this swap (it's why people usually use dual-line Girling calipers spec'd for a Volvo 240 for the carbed '02 swap).

I have a complete parts car 1981 320i and I would like to know what parts can be used for the front brake upgrade. Thanks

As I understand it, you can use your hubs. Anything else is either not as beneficial or much more work to implement. Your 320's rear brakes, however, can work as an upgrade.

Someone else will probably chime in if I've made an error. I've neither owned a 320i nor done the big brake upgrade, but I've read lots about it.

-Dave

[BarryA]

...tii and early 320i hubs have larger bearings. I believe 77 may be the only year for the vented E21 323i rotors, at least the only year with the correct width and offset for the E12 528 callipers used in combination with tii struts.

Fred '73 tii RIP 74 project

on all E21 323's, but US spec 320's only got them for the '77 model year. Part number for '77 US spec 320's and all 323's is the same, and vented rotors fit both early ('77 - '79) and late ('80 - '83) hubs. M20 6 cylinder powered E21's (320/6 and 323 models) were never officially imported to the US, but the brake rotors are readily available.

Two piston E21 front calipers will fit non-tii struts, but as posted, are not really compatible with mid-year 1969 and later 4 piston, dual line 2002 front brakes.

All US spec E21 320 rear drum brakes (drums, shoes, and backing plates) are essentially indentical and are a bolt on swap for '02s except for the e-brake cable length (use 2002 Turbo e-brake cables).

[skipsfcr]

You can use the '77 320i front calipers with a stock '02 master cylinder but you'll have to plug two ports for the lines not used. I did this on my nevada car and it works fine. The main problem is there's big time interference with the 320 caliper contacting the "hat" portion of the rotor when you attempt to assemble the parts. The overall diameter of the rotor had to be (at least in my case) reduced by about 3/16"...Not a big problem for me since I own a brake lathe. Aside from that the brakes work fantastic...Arguably better than the Volvo setup on my other '02.

[ClayW]

Yeah, Dave's right on all that stuff.

Here's what you need to do:

Use the hubs from your parts car and get the `77 320i-only vented rotors new. They're only like $35 each, so that's not too bad. Buy new bearings and seals for the `80-`83 320i. Next, find a mid `80's Volvo 240 to get the Girling calipers from. If you order rebuilt ones, like I did, just ask for an `85 240 and make sure they give you VENTED rotor calipers. Girling has made calipers for BMW too, so don't worry about quality; they're great! Pads should be for the same Volvo car. Now you can upgrade to bigger brakes! It's all bolt in and I' did it in a weekend. I also opted for the tii Master Cylinder, because mine was going out and the tii wasn't that much more. It's a little bigger and requires less pedal pressure.

Further, you can strip a LOT of stuff off of that 320i to reuse on your 2002! First, the transmission. The 5 spd might be the single best thing that you can upgrade your 2002 with. I can't even imagine driving a 2002 without the overdrive anymore. Nothing will upgrade the driveablility of your car more.

Also, take the radiator, alternator and rear brakes. The radiator is just plainly bigger, the alternator is 65 amp as opposed to 45 for the 2002, and the rear brakes are a nearly bolt-on upgrade!

Rear brakes: All you have to do is pull off the wheel and hub (36mm axle nut) and unbolt the backing plates. Swithch them out with the 2002 brakes and reassemble......just make sure you get the axle nut REALLY tight. Way tighter than that. The only weird thing on these brakes is that you have to get 2002 Turbo emergency brake cables.

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/productx.aspx?gkw=BMW+2002+Turbo+Parking+Brake+Cable&gad=CPvVo5gCEgiM5kBgtQXq4Rjtn_T8AyCXvNMT&makeid=800003@BMW&modelid=1010800@2002%20Turbo&year=1974&cid=14@Brake%20&%20Wheel%20Hub&gid=1696@Parking%20Brake%20Cable

Good luck!

[skipsfcr]

The beauty of the Volvo calipers is that they bolt right on....That's what's so great about the setup. BTW...you can use ANY non-ABS Volvo 240 caliper all the way up through the end of production as long as the car has vented rotors. We typically request calipers for about a '91 240GL and we've converted a BUNCH of '02s to vented front brakes.

[02sahara]

On 7/11/2006 at 8:58 PM, ClayW said:

It's all bolt in

On 7/11/2006 at 9:07 PM, skipsfcr said:

The beauty of the Volvo calipers is that they bolt right on....That's what's so great about the setup.

@ClayW & @skipsfcr ... and you did it without any modifications to the calipers? So completely bolt-in solution if you get the right parts? 

I read about that this is necessary for several reasons ...

• May touch the rims/wheels, at least on some 13" ones.
• Break pads do overlap.

Edited August 5, 2024 by 02sahara
removal of line breaks

[Mark92131]

On 7/11/2006 at 12:07 PM, skipsfcr said:

The beauty of the Volvo calipers is that they bolt right on....

 

They do bolt right on, but without modification, the pads won't cover the rotor completely and they don't work with 13" rims.  But I have run them on my cars without modifications and 14"+ rims with no issues.

 

Mark92131

 

 

[TobyB]

18 year thread bump- I wonder what you win?

 

Yes, the pad hangs over the rotor by about 2.5mm.

No, that really doesn't cause problems for braking. 

It DOES make some people freak out, but then, there are 40 page threads about motor oil, too...

I slotted mine the 2.5mm, and so far (22 years later) I'm not dead.

 

You DO need that 0.080" or so spacer between the mounting pad and the caliper.

 

For those who freak out about these things, I suggest never driving in, riding in, or being in the same

zip code as an E30.  Those nasty little buggers use 2 x 8mm bolts to hold the calipers on, and THAT'S far more

terrifying (and has caused more wrecks) than any 2002-Volvo brake adaptations...  

 

t

 

[kbmb02]

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

You DO need that 0.080" or so spacer between the mounting pad and the caliper.

 

You mean the spacers which are less-than-fun to install when swapping a caliper at the track, with brake fluid dripping everywhere? (note: now, I tack-weld the spacer to the strut)

 

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

For those who freak out about these things, I suggest never driving in, riding in, or being in the same

zip code as an E30.  Those nasty little buggers use 2 x 8mm bolts to hold the calipers on, and THAT'S far more

terrifying (and has caused more wrecks) than any 2002-Volvo brake adaptations...

 

More reason to stay entirely out of the way of E30's... between the brake calipers and texting-while-instagramming drivers. -KB

[Stevenc22]

For the record, the Ireland conversion kit welds in the original volvo caliper holes and redrills them to ensure proper pad to rotor contact.