antifreeze red or green? or does it matter that much

[Russell74Fjord]

tried search, no much there, opinions on this?

[Squarepusher]

green or blue with the purified waters of lake minnetonka

[Lars]

that GM cars and some other makes use, then don't use it in the 02. Those cooling systems are built for that stuff. The 02 is not. Stick with the green.

If there is another red coolant out there then I have no idea about it.

[uxoman]

It is designed to be non-corrosive to aluminum parts.

[uxoman]

It is designed to be non-corrosive to aluminum parts.

[Guest Anonymous]

Instead of fretting over the color, notice what's in he antifreeze. Read the label

For the most part, Blue is designed with the high mineral content found in European water - not ordinarily found in North America. Orange (Dexcool) is not only low in phosphorous content, but is silicate-free. In theory, less silicates (abrasives a.k.a sand) equals less wear on pump seals (although that abrasive (as found in the green stuff) allegedly abrades the corrosion off of brass radiator tubes.)

Green contains all of the above and is fine for just about anything water cooled as long as you dont mind routine flushing and replacement of seals.

Sorry disagree with some of our fellow 02ers, but all three can be used with confidence.

[jimk]

Orange (Dexcool) is not only low in phosphorous content, but is silicate-free. In theory, less silicates (abrasives a.k.a sand) equals less wear on pump seals (although that abrasive (as found in the green stuff) allegedly abrades the corrosion off of brass radiator tubes.)

Silica is not the same a silicates. Silica is sand. Silicates are not sand. Nobody would put abrasives in antifreeze (at the factory anyway).

[robspeed]

Instead of fretting over the color, notice what's in he antifreeze. Read the label

For the most part, Blue is designed with the high mineral content found in European water - not ordinarily found in North America. Orange (Dexcool) is not only low in phosphorous content, but is silicate-free. In theory, less silicates (abrasives a.k.a sand) equals less wear on pump seals (although that abrasive (as found in the green stuff) allegedly abrades the corrosion off of brass radiator tubes.)

Green contains all of the above and is fine for just about anything water cooled as long as you dont mind routine flushing and replacement of seals.

Sorry disagree with some of our fellow 02ers, but all three can be used with confidence.

The most important thing is to not MIX any two types!! I used dexcool for years before destroying radiator and losing it all to pavement. i replaced with green just for convenience sake (after a flush). Plain water and redline water wetter works good too (but only in summer or non-freezing locations!!) I use 50/50 green now, only because i tend to "open" the cooling system a lot lately (eating motor mounts/radiators... gotta stop doing that! =P)

[Guest Anonymous]

I have no opinion on which antifreeze to use, but I respectfully believe your response to the other responder's observations was half-baked.

The silicates in antifreeze are merely suspended in solution and when they drop out, what do you think they form? Scale? granulated formations? sand? In any event, the two are closely related in this context and can become abrasive. OF course water can be abrasive too but that is another topic.

A simple net search of just one antifreeze manufacturer/purveyor reveals their promotional literature highlights the potential abrasive qualities of silicates. This may not be empirical evidence, but it certainly does not support your conclusion. The folowing is from Peak's website:

"PEAK Extended Life Antifreeze contains no silicates and no phosphates, both of which can contribute to expensive engine problems. Silicates are abrasive and cause premature water pump seal failure. No other extended life antifreeze provides better water pump seal protection than PEAK Extended Life. As well, phosphates in other antifreezes can also contribute to cooling system blockage caused by scale and hard water drop out.

PEAK Extended Life also provides exceptional heat transfer and boil-over protection in the most demanding of driving conditions, and because it’s formulated for long service intervals, it is guaranteed to protect for 150,000 miles or five years. This reduces overall vehicle operating and maintenance costs."

[Guest Anonymous]

Damn Keyboard. Let's try that again.

Meant to say your conclusion was half-baked.

I am not endorsing any antifreeze nor the chemistry behind it/them, but the notion of silicates being abrasive is common.

Here is what PEAK says about their antifreeze:

"PEAK Extended Life Antifreeze contains no silicates and no phosphates, both of which can contribute to expensive engine problems. Silicates are abrasive and cause premature water pump seal failure. No other extended life antifreeze provides better water pump seal protection than PEAK Extended Life. As well, phosphates in other antifreezes can also contribute to cooling system blockage caused by scale and hard water drop out.

PEAK Extended Life also provides exceptional heat transfer and boil-over protection in the most demanding of driving conditions, and because it’s formulated for long service intervals, it is guaranteed to protect for 150,000 miles or five years. This reduces overall vehicle operating and maintenance costs."

[Guest Anonymous]

The above had been an attempt to respond to jimk in Denver's comments.

[jimk]

Meant to say your conclusion was half-baked.

I am not endorsing any antifreeze nor the chemistry behind it/them, but the notion of silicates being abrasive is common.

Here is what PEAK says about their antifreeze:

"PEAK Extended Life Antifreeze contains no silicates and no phosphates, both of which can contribute to expensive engine problems. Silicates are abrasive and cause premature water pump seal failure. No other extended life antifreeze provides better water pump seal protection than PEAK Extended Life. As well, phosphates in other antifreezes can also contribute to cooling system blockage caused by scale and hard water drop out.

PEAK Extended Life also provides exceptional heat transfer and boil-over protection in the most demanding of driving conditions, and because it’s formulated for long service intervals, it is guaranteed to protect for 150,000 miles or five years. This reduces overall vehicle operating and maintenance costs."

And your conclusion is based on one company's advertising! And Silicates are found in the bread you may be eating if you look at the label, a form if it is a food preservative.

BTW I don't know what type I am using, but in 35 years of 02 ownership I've replaced one water pump and never a radiator, so it can't be as big a deal as is being made.

[jimk]

From EET Corp:

OAT stands for Organic Acid Technology. OAT antifreeze is not made from grain. Some organic acids can be used as corrosion inhibitors instead of the traditional inorganic inhibitors, like nitrites and silicates. OAT antifreeze should only be used in newer vehicles designed for its use. Organic acids actually attack the lead solder used in the radiators of older model vehicles.

And More:

In the past, most antifreezes were green. Now, manufacturers use a variety of colors in their antifreeze product lines. Green generally, but not necessarily, indicates an automotive or light duty formulation. Orange antifreeze generally means extended-life type of antifreeze. It is ethylene glycol-based like most green antifreezes but contains different corrosion inhibitors.

The various manufacturers use colors to identify their products in a bit of marketing gamesmanship; however, there are no hard rules governing the use of these colors. Equipment manufacturers and consumers should have an ability to identify their approved fluid. In addition, color has been used in antifreezes as a safety measure to discourage accidental ingestion.

Since the mid-1990’s, the proliferation of coolant colors has caused considerable confusion. All engine coolants use a glycol base but include different performance additives that inhibit (control) scale/ corrosion. Believe it or not, all of these coolants are clear, water white before dye is added.

The traditional green coolant is based on inorganic additives and is called inorganic additive technology (IAT). It is a tried and proven chemistry that provides a fast acting protective film. The additives deplete, though, and need to be replenished every couple of years.

Fully formulated engine coolants were developed in response to user demands for a simpler, universal, longer life coolant technology. Heavy-duty operators had to use low silicate automotive coolant formulations (high silicate automotive antifreezes could cause “green goo” in diesel engines) that required a separate SCA additive. This often resulted in mixing errors when the SCA was added at initial fill or when topping-off. Unlike automotive antifreeze, fully formulated coolants are pre-charged with SCA’s and contain all of the ingredients necessary to protect diesel, gasoline, and gaseous fuel engines. Pink has become recognized as the color for fully formulated coolant, although they are also commercially available in green (as required by government agencies). These products meet performance requirements for major automotive specifications, allowing mixed-fleet operators to stock one antifreeze formula for all of their vehicles.

A new type of antifreeze, referred to as extended or long life, has emerged. Its unique chemistry differs significantly from that used in traditional antifreezes. Referred to as organic acid technology (OAT), this new chemistry uses organic acids to protect cooling system metals. Extended life antifreezes have been colored red or orange depending on the supplier; however, more colors may be used in the future. While these fluids do not deplete during service, they also do not protect as quickly as IAT coolants. These differences require a significant change in procedures used to maintain the cooling system.

General Motors® has been using this technology (DEX-COOL®) in their cars and trucks since 1996. They use an orange dye for DEX-COOL® product. A Ford Motor Company® study concluded that OAT coolants “do not offer any significant advantages for the consumer…” and “…current coolant corrosion protection can be extended far beyond previous expectations”. Cummins Engine Company announced in a memo dated July 16,1999, that OAT coolants are not compatible with their engines. Cummins is reporting that these long life antifreezes cause degradation of silicone seals in their engines after 80,000 to 100,000 miles of service. Cummins, therefore, is not recommending the use of OAT coolants in their engines.

Hybrid organic acid technology (HOAT) uses both inorganic and organic acid additives for long life protection. The objective with HOAT is to provide excellent all around protection and extended drain intervals. HOAT coolants generally can replace or are compatible with green IAT in older vehicles. Chrysler used conventional green IAT coolant until 2001, when they adopted G-05®, a hybrid coolant. Ford followed suit in 2002, dropping the green IAT for G-05® factory fill and extending the drain interval. Variations of HOAT coolants have been around for more than 50 years.

[ingraham]

the metals and plastics used in modern BMWs. For 2002s with all-metal radiators, I recommend brand name ethylene glycol antifreeze mixed 50/50 with distilled water, flushed and renewed every two years. I am not prepared to discuss the religious basis of this recommendation.

[TobyB]

antifreeze is tasty and shouldn't be left lying around for pets to drink.

No religion here, either...

Water wetter and distilled water leads to a bit of rust in the system, and that makes me... unhappy. So I've been trying other things.

Eggs don't work. Neither does Jack Daniels, because then I just drink it.

Milk smelt bad, but the car didn't overheat.

Pee worked in a dire emergency, but smelled almost as bad as the milk.

Beer worked, and smelled nice for a while...

Oh, whatever!

heh heh

t