Can clear coat 02 colors be buffed out?

[Gil]

Am wondering if any of the 02 colors that are clear coated - Polaris, Granatrot, Taiga, etc. be buffed out if the clear coat is faded and dull? If you can, does it work well?

If the clear coat is kinda gone, is there a way to remove just the clear coat (some or all) , or do you have to get in there and get and just go at it with a DA sander or stripper and take the clear coat off and not worry if you take off some, or all of the base coat?

Too bad that the BMW clear coat doesn't last as long as a solid color. There's a few good candidates for a '76 that I am loking for, but ones with clear coat seem to typically have bad paint. Wish I could find a nice Pastelblau '76. Not a common color?

Thanks,

Gil

[Mikesmalaga72]

Back in 74-76 BMW came out with the base/clear concept, but the chemistry, and prep work was not like it should have been. Back then I remember two year old 02`s with the clear coat checking, crowfooting, and crazing, and clouding etc. BMW had some probs with it. I would go to an expert in person to physically see what alternatives there are. It may be possible to do some of the things you mention. They are good ideas! Keeping layers of paint to a minimum is a good thing!

[DukeRimmer]

No. Needs strip and respray. There was nothing inferior about any BMW paints, they were equal to any other manufacturer. All metallics were clear coated, '60s vintage included.

[Mikesmalaga72]

In response to non inferior BMW paint. That was my observation back then. I may have been mistaken but....I will relent. Just my perception I suppose.

[Gil]

(nt)

[esty]

If the clear coat is kinda gone

Gil

not sure what "kinda gone" means but if it's clearcooted...you can cut it with 1500 or 2000 then buff it out...but it might be only a temp fix if it's any of the early generation clears

[Guest Anonymous]

yes, today's c/c paints are much better. A clear coat can even be used ofer a single stage paint if it has not hardened too much.

[Delia]

Bahnstormer, you are right about the metallic paint problems...

When I sought to buy a new 2002 in early 1975, I went to the dealer in Lansing, Michigan and had my choice of two cars, an Amazonsgrun non-metallic 2002 or a Polaris silver metallic 2002.

The BMW CCA Roundel reported problems with new-car metalllic paints, and the factory was already paying for resprays on the sunny west coast and in the south.

I bought the Amazonasgrun 2002 and my friend Loren bought the Polaris one. Within a year, when the paint dulled and checked, the dealer stripped and repainted his car for no charge. Later the car was sold to my friend Laura, and the newer two-stage paint job held up well into the 1980s.

I can only assume that virtually every mid-seventies metallic paint job has by now been redone in one way or another. Buffing it out depends on when it was painted and the type of paint used.

"Ya hadda been there!"

Delia

[Mikesmalaga72]

Thanks Ms. Delia for the agreement regarding the paint issue. I was there then.

[DukeRimmer]

I was there too, earning my living repairing and repainting crashed BMWs, not shopping for one, or having conversations with service writers. An increase in paint failures is no reason to condemn an entire generation. Other manufacturers had paint failures too, especially GM.

[Mikesmalaga72]

It definately was not my intent to degrade BMW paints. I also made my living in that era painting BMW`s at the dealer. Why did BMWNA have to correct said conditions at the time? I had customers complaining to me about it. I suppose it was just my imagination that base/clear systems were new in the early 70`s too. C`mon Duke we`re supposed to be team mates!!!

[Delia]

That's true, Duke.

The early 1970s had environmental laws that wreaked havoc on traditional paint formulations. Nearly every manufacturer (includingDupont, S/W) tripped along their way to develop new, more durable paints. Single stage metallic paints were disappearing.

The new, two-stage metallics ~'73-'74 were touted as being better. BMW owners were required to pay an extra ($150 or $300, I can't recall) for metallic paint, and that's where the complaints stemmed from. Paying more money to get substandard quality was "not a good marketing strategy," and the new BMWNA made good on the resprays.

If you had a crapppy metallic paint job on a Pinto or Vega, you'd not likely get the same deal.

Delia

[DukeRimmer]

I did to get kicked off the team. My intent in replying to Gil’s post was to help a fellow ’02 enthusiast from doing harm, or wasting time/money on his car, as are 99% of my posts. It would be wrong to give Gil any hope that his paint can be saved, or even improved. Any attempt at improvement will most likely involve oil based rubbing compound or cleaning wax. These products do very little to improve appearance of failed clear and they become contaminates which the painter must remove. It is also wrong to give the impression that an original metallic painted car of any vintage is a bad investment.

Clear coats date at least to the 50s. Manufacturers began using them in the 60s. I believe all BMW metallics were clear coated. Fjord blue was used on 1970 models, and Polaris was used from 1965.

As to my friend (I hope) Delia’s experience; Not all cars painted Polaris failed in one year. I ground into the layers of paint on scores, if not hundreds of Polaris and other metallic colored BMWs through 80s. If there was epidemic paint failure I would not have seen so many originals. The paint that did often fail in one year was air dried Glasso, which was used by the manufacturer and the dealers. The cars were painted a baked on finish, also by Glasso, on the assembly line. So I’m sure Delia’s friend Laura bought a brand new car that was damaged and resprayed with air dried Glasso. This stuff was easy to use, and the color match was amazing, but the durability was a disaster. My experience with all paint manufacturers has been that they each improve their products in steps; roughly from synthetic enamel and nitrocellulose laquers, to acrylic enamels and acrylic laquers, to urethanes and polyurethanes. The most memorable big step in the seventies was the introduction of DuPont Imron urethane, but it wasn’t long before the competition was making better urethanes. There was no overall paint manufacturer disaster. The famous paint disaster of the 70s, caused by the greenies, was GMs switch to water based colors. This is the one that peeled off in large sheets.

When all goes well in terms of rust and damage, all paints fail because of ultra violet induced oxidation. When you have no clear coat, you can scrub the oxidation off, and the car looks good again. With a clear coat, the oxidation occurs at the color coat so there is no cure. You can not reach through the clear to treat the color. The clouding and crazing are the result of the clear loosing it’s grip on the color coat and cracking. The reason clears have improved over the years is development of better and better ultra violet blockers.

I’m amazed that my posts would make me a team deserter. I’m just trying to help, but am aware that I have annoyed some. I will try in future to resist the temptation to reply to so many body related posts. I'm happy to help when I can, and my email is easy to find. IMHO a knowledgeable team member would speak up when I try to tell skeptics where to put sun roof seals, how to deal with insurance adjusters, and the definitions of bumper over rider, bumper guard, belt line, side moulding. Plus how to adjust doors and hoods, and the importance of water tight doors.