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What’s this notch?


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On the crank hub.  It’s a tii a/c hub.  I installed the hub a couple of years back and have run the car happily without ever knowing it was there. I have just replaced the a/c belt, as thankless a job as the 2002tii offers, and just noticed it.  I’d say it was a tdc mark, but in the below photo the engine is not at TDC, but about one cylinder retarded.  With the engine at TDC is disappears about 1/4 turn clockwise….

 

Observations appreciated.

IMG_1407.jpeg

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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Probably timing mark. Not sure if the Tii has the timing tab as well, but on a carb'd car you can time off the crank pulley with a notch like that.

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-Nathan
'76 2002 in Malaga (110k Original, 2nd Owner, sat for 20 years and now a toy)
'86 Chevy K20 (6.2 Turbo Diesel build) & '46 Chevy 2 Ton Dump Truck
'74 Suzuki TS185, '68 BSA A65 Lightning (garage find), '74 BMW R90S US Spec #2

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Notch is indeed TDC for cylinder #1 on a tii.  The outer crank pulley also has a notch for use with a timing gun (much easier than trying to point the tool down past the rear air cleaner snorkel).

Edited by jgerock
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Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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15 minutes ago, Furry Camel said:

That hash mark does not line up on the mark on the front cover for TDC. It should be at about 5 o'clock when the crank pulley is lined up with the center line of the drive belt and hash on the Kugel sprocket. I don't reall know why it was done that way, but it serves no purpose that I know of.

Comforting words!

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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image.png.4f1e8bacc88d7d42c2cd10652c90bde7.png

 

See that casting ridge inline with the stud at 5ish o'clock? That's where that crank notch should be at TDC. That other longer ridge at 2ish o'clock is where the pulley notch lines up, which is useless since it's covered by the plastic front cover when the pulley is attached. Thanks, engineer.

Edited by Furry Camel
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I don’t care if the engineers had that in mind.  Just relieved that Zouave is not in some timing nightmare I hadn’t even known about!

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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Perhaps I’ve been doing it all wrong for the last 17 years😂

 

Plastic Lower timing cover has a notch at about 2 o’clock which should line up with notch on outer crank pulley. Outer pulley and crank hub have offset bolt pattern - not square.

 

IMG_2340.jpeg

IMG_2341.jpeg

IMG_2342.jpeg

Edited by jgerock
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Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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So on to the next step/stumble: my crank pulley (pulley, not hub) was a little warped at the level of the of bolt holes. Just — wrinkly. Probably damaged by me when I removed it to install the a/c hub, but I don’t recall. The runout at the rim is minimal, but the interior edge was disturbing.  So I bought the W&N replacement, which is a black anodized aluminum lightweight affair.  It would seat over the hub.  But when I tried it, neither would the old steel hub.  The old hub could be forced on, but going over the edge of the hub was difficult. Clearly some peening of the outer edge of the hub had occurred (me again, like as not). 

 

I took a file to the beveled front edge of the pulley. Slowly, slowly, I removed any burrs or ridges I could detect. I then sanded the anodization off the inner edge of the new pulley.  No go. Repeat. Repeat.  I can be timid when it comes to stuff like this.

 

As it was still not getting over the edge, I relented and got out my round stick file and commenced rotation on her inner edge.  Beveling the back face and removing shavings at each go.  After hours of that the pulley finally fits, but of course it’s not a “press” fit.  I can move it slightly while it’s on.  I make the hub diameter out to be about 56mm, though that’s measuring at the peened rim (my cheesy mic arms aren’t long enough to find the center of the hub except head on). The widest point of the inner rim of the pulley is about 56.2mm.  So .2 mm or thereabouts of play.

 

The pulley is held on the hub by tiny li’l ol’ 6mm bolts with wave washers.  Always spinning clockwise, as it were designed to loosen them every time you start the car.  So the question is: does the pulley need to be dead tight, or is that amount of play acceptable?  And is this a place to consider Loctite, and if so, blue or red?IMG_1413.thumb.jpeg.f56a937dacb18e99102a656bebf6dbff.jpeg

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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1 hour ago, jgerock said:

Perhaps I’ve been doing it all wrong for the last 17 years😂

 

Plastic Lower timing cover has a notch at about 2 o’clock which should line up with notch on outer crank pulley. Outer pulley and crank hub have offset bolt pattern - not square.

 

IMG_2340.jpeg

IMG_2341.jpeg

IMG_2342.jpeg

Now you can see why in my following post I was careful to distinguish between hub and pulley.  I had to plow through a half dozen threads labeled “Pulley” that were actually about hubs.🤔

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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10 hours ago, Furry Camel said:

The pulley and hub are a close fit, not so close to require force. It's usually a buildup of rust, thick paint, etc.

Don't overthink the 6mm bolts becoming loose. A wave washer is plenty. Don't even think about red Loctite.

+1.   The pulley is a very tight fit to the hub. A little bit of rust will create fitment problems and it will take quite a bit of prying to remove it.

 

Also, the pulley can be accidentally installed onto the hub backwards - and it will rub against the plastic lower cover and create a slight offset for the belt.  BTDT.

Edited by jgerock

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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12 hours ago, 0257 said:

Now you can see why in my following post I was careful to distinguish between hub and pulley.  I had to plow through a half dozen threads labeled “Pulley” that were actually about hubs.🤔

Each time I’ve taken something off a tii engine, I always rotate to TDC on #1 cylinder before removing parts. That way, I know things should go back together properly.

 

In all honesty, I never looked at the relationship between the keyway of the hub to the crank and the corresponding notch (on the hub and on the outer pulley).

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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Jim, re your first post, it’s precisely the .2mm of jiggle in the fit I was concerned about.  Not a “resistance fit” now, but not waggling loose either.

 

Re your second point, amen to that and I did.  Then as always, a week later completely forgot about it as went about fiting the driveshaft and connecting my CVs (with Aardvarc axle spacers), and in the process….. yeah, rotated clockwise a good part of a turn.  Luckily, I had already fit the KF belt, so I felt pretty comfortable rotating the motor back a quarter turn past TDC, then back to TDC, just to line it all up again before working on pulley fit.  And it does: #1 valves closed, cam to oiler bar aligned, flywheel TDC line in hole, KFish cam marks and timing cover aligned.  In the process I see a bit of mismatch between the flywheel TDC line and fhe pulley/front cover when the line is smack in the middle of the hole, but a friend tells me that true timing is at the driver’s side edge of that hole, which lines things up pretty well.  

 

i would never have noticed the notch in the hub had I gone through that exercise and spent so much time with a file on it.

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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