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Buyer Beware! Ireland Getrag 245


nhep23
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The saga continues... 

 

Following up on my "Whining after 5 Speed Swap" thread from Aug 2021.

TLDR: I bought a "REBUILT" Getrag 245 from Ireland on October 22nd 2020 for $1900. It sat around for a few months before I could gather all of the other equipment to go along with the install. Once I got it in the car, I found it had a nasty whining/grinding noise in 1st and 4th gears. I took it to a third party local mechanic in Denver and he strongly recommended pulling it out and having it rebuilt.

Out it came, and in went the original 4 speed. I didn't feel like shelling out $3300 to Metric Mechanic at the time, so I shelved it for another year.

Fast forward to a couple months ago, I heard of a reputable transmission shop near Denver (A-1 Transmission near 8th and 25, if anyone is interested). They pulled it out and lo and behold, this "rebuilt" trans was trash. Mark at A-1 was kind enough to let me part with a few of the gears so I could grab a few pictures and warn the masses.

See attached picture. this was one of the best looking gears that came out. I didn't get pictures of the other ones but the tips of the teeth were absolutely mangled. Any mechanic worth their salt wouldn't dare put this back in a transmission and call it "rebuilt".

To answer some of your questions:

  • Yes, I'm sure I didn't do this damage myself after installing the trans in my car.
  • Yes, I put the right oil in
  • Yes, I contacted Ireland in Aug 2021 to get money back
  • No, they didn't do anything about it. They claimed that they warned me that "rebuilt" = only swapping seals, not any of the mechanical bits. Of course I bought it over the phone so I didn't have anything written down. Stupid nhep23.

 

Luckily, A-1 was able to find a core in pretty good condition. This freshly rebuilt (note: no quotation marks anymore) trans will be going in the car sometime this fall, i'll be sure to post a follow up then.

 

So, buyer beware! Everyone already knows what's going on at Ireland, but another example never hurts.... (me, at least)

 


image.jpeg.e216338da0362219b0add1462dd5aad2.jpeg

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A couple notes on how MM handles rebuilds.

 

If your core is accepted by them, i.e. gears not shot (and they will inspect before accepting) and you need the trans right away, they will exchange it for a rebuilt (if one is available).

 

If it's shot and is no good for a core and they have a rebuilt available, they will add the core charge to the cost of build.


If you want your trans rebuilt and returned they will oblige.  If it has gear wear and noisy, they will rebuild it if you want, but can't and won't say the noise will go away.  You will be informed when they get to see the internals.

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7 minutes ago, jimk said:

A couple notes on how MM handles rebuilds.

 

If your core is accepted by them, i.e. gears not shot (and they will inspect before accepting) and you need the trans right away, they will exchange it for a rebuilt (if one is available).

 

If it's shot and is no good for a core and they have a rebuilt available, they will add the core charge to the cost of build.


If you want your trans rebuilt and returned they will oblige.  If it has gear wear and noisy, they will rebuild it if you want, but can't and won't say the noise will go away.  You will be informed when they get to see the internals.


To be clear though, I bought my transmission from Ireland, not from MM. While that is good insight, it is not applicable to my situation.

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I’m not sure I understand the problem.  It sounds like they told you they don’t rebuild them fully but you missed that and now you’re angry?  You contradict yourself at least once.  It sucks buying a whiny trans but it sounds like Ireland never had it apart and told you as much.  

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11 minutes ago, johnny02 said:

I’m not sure I understand the problem.  It sounds like they told you they don’t rebuild them fully but you missed that and now you’re angry?  You contradict yourself at least once.  It sucks buying a whiny trans but it sounds like Ireland never had it apart and told you as much.  

No, it wasn't until 9 months after I bought the transmission that they went into more detailed as to their definition of "rebuilt".


When I bought it, they told me it was "rebuilt". Yes, there's some responsibility on me to get proof and documentation of that, but jeeze man it would be good to have some faith in the people I'm buying parts from....

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5 hours ago, nhep23 said:

Any mechanic worth their salt wouldn't dare put this back in a transmission and call it "rebuilt".

As far as I'm concerned any mechanic worth their salt shouldn't  call any component "Rebuilt" unless it was restored to factory new specs. I doubt even Metric Mechanic is "rebuilding", they are cleaning, inspecting and restoring to serviceable specs. It's called an overhaul and there is a difference.

I guess Rebuilt has more market draw.

Rant over, carry on.

Edited by tech71
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5 hours ago, nhep23 said:

The saga continues... 

 

Following up on my "Whining after 5 Speed Swap" thread from Aug 2021.

TLDR: I bought a "REBUILT" Getrag 245 from Ireland on October 22nd 2020 for $1900. It sat around for a few months before I could gather all of the other equipment to go along with the install. Once I got it in the car, I found it had a nasty whining/grinding noise in 1st and 4th gears. I took it to a third party local mechanic in Denver and he strongly recommended pulling it out and having it rebuilt.

Out it came, and in went the original 4 speed. I didn't feel like shelling out $3300 to Metric Mechanic at the time, so I shelved it for another year.

Fast forward to a couple months ago, I heard of a reputable transmission shop near Denver (A-1 Transmission near 8th and 25, if anyone is interested). They pulled it out and lo and behold, this "rebuilt" trans was trash. Mark at A-1 was kind enough to let me part with a few of the gears so I could grab a few pictures and warn the masses.

See attached picture. this was one of the best looking gears that came out. I didn't get pictures of the other ones but the tips of the teeth were absolutely mangled. Any mechanic worth their salt wouldn't dare put this back in a transmission and call it "rebuilt".

To answer some of your questions:

  • Yes, I'm sure I didn't do this damage myself after installing the trans in my car.
  • Yes, I put the right oil in
  • Yes, I contacted Ireland in Aug 2021 to get money back
  • No, they didn't do anything about it. They claimed that they warned me that "rebuilt" = only swapping seals, not any of the mechanical bits. Of course I bought it over the phone so I didn't have anything written down. Stupid nhep23.

 

Luckily, A-1 was able to find a core in pretty good condition. This freshly rebuilt (note: no quotation marks anymore) trans will be going in the car sometime this fall, i'll be sure to post a follow up then.

 

So, buyer beware! Everyone already knows what's going on at Ireland, but another example never hurts.... (me, at least)

 


image.jpeg.e216338da0362219b0add1462dd5aad2.jpeg

Not to start a beef, but $1900 is the low end of what you pay for a rebuilt 245.  I would expect that you would get some new syncros, some bearings and a seal kit for that amount. 

 

MM, who hasn't shared what they do for the unobtainum lay shaft bearings, will relieve you of about $4K (or more) for their rebuilt 245, and with that, they won't guarantee that it is "factory fresh". With that said I feel that they would provide an excellent product. 

 

I have one 245 installed which has tired but functional syncros, and a unknown (likely screwed) one I got of FBMP sitting on my floor.  Neither one I will attempt to rebuild until I have 3-4K and a creative machinist on hot standby to deal up the layshaft bearings.   I did get a pair of output shaft bearings, as they were NLA for at least 2-3 years prior. 

 

The one time Ireland messed up by sending me a incorrect length oil pump chain, they instantly refunded my money and said sorry. 

 

Regards

 

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7 minutes ago, JsnPpp said:

Huge difference between "rebuilt" and "resealed". The word "rebuilt" should never have been used in this case.

 

Agree. If they had used “resealed” in this case, it would have been more accurate. 

 

But even if they had it opened up to reseal it (i haven’t resealed one so i don’t know the extent at which you have to disassemble to reseal), then they would have seen how bad of shape these gears were in and I should have been notified of that ….

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If I can get a RX8 transmission grafted into my 75, I will pull the one I have installed apart to see the condition of the gears.  I am interested to see the condition of the bearings and synchros. Mine whines noticeably, and giving up a bit of unicorn dust to the oil. It will be interesting to see the effect bad bearings have on the wear patterns in the gears.  I expect it is all worn, and any attempt at diagnosing the source of the whine will be futile. 

 

It is my understanding, in broad terms, the conditions of the gears has less to do with the noise and shifting.  The synchros and bearings (at least anecdotally) have a greater impact on the smoothness of a transmission with helical cut gears (like the 245).  Straight cut gears is a whole different kettle of fish, as there is reduced side loading of the gear set. 

 

I read through the manual a little while ago.  Somebody else can confirm, but I believe you need to split the case completely to do the seals.  One large gasket on either end of the gear pack. 

 

Regards

 

Edit.  It is apparently the countershaft bearings that are unobtainium.

image.thumb.png.129b709bb669ebe4867b2a313311bfcc.png 

Edited by Dudeland
Countershaft bearings.
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6 hours ago, nhep23 said:


TLDR: I bought a "REBUILT" Getrag 245 from Ireland on October 22nd 2020 for $1900

Did you buy it off the IE website or Ebay? Someone at IE was/does sell stuff on Ebay, purchased several items and they all were sent from IE return address.

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Just a heads up for anyone questioning this. THIS TRANSMISSION WAS SOLD AS NOISY FROM THE GET GO. Hence the $1900 price tag. Better looking transmissions sell for $2500 or more.  
BUYER WAS WELL AWARE OF THIS BEFORE THEY PURCHASED and was informed there was no returns.
 

All our transmissions are rebuilt by Steve at SK performance. Most people in SoCal know this man and can vouch for his work. When he gave the transmission to us we were notified that the gears had gotten warm (not hot or burned) and would make some amount of noise, but that the transmission would otherwise function properly. 
 

The other reason we could not offer a solution is that the transmission was bought from owner Jeff. The new owner myself (Andrew) never had his money to begin with to be able to refund him anyways. AKA I don’t have liability for Jeff’s business dealings (thats just the way the sale of the business was structured). Only recourse he had would be to take legal action against Jeff. 
 

Take this information as you will. Just wanted everyone to know both sides of the story. 


-Andrew

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2 hours ago, Dudeland said:

Not to start a beef, but $1900 is the low end of what you pay for a rebuilt 245.  I would expect that you would get some new syncros, some bearings and a seal kit for that amount. 


 

 


Any leads on rebuilt 245s for $1900? Or are you saying $1900 is a cheap rebuild on your own transmission? I’m seeing used, assumed good but unopened and certainly not rebuilt trans going for that price. As OP stated MM charges over $3000 for a rebuild and you supply the transmission. 

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