Original 2002 ti steering wheel question?

[Conserv]

My confidence that the “11” is a “71” is at a 1% probability and my confidence that the “86” is a “68” is at a 20% probability. So is it merely coincidence that my first wheel is marked “72”, which I read as 1972? Possibly.

 

But I reached into my old parts bin and pulled out two more sport wheels. Both are stamped “73”, as in 1973 (first and second photos below).

 

Am I still convinced my “72” and two “73”’s are date stamps? I suppose not 100%. But the standard plastic “bus wheels” tend to have date stamps (a September 1971 wheel in the third photo) as do the square taillight wheels (the March 1976 wheel from my April 1976 2002, fourth photo). I guess I’m at a 70% probability that the “72”’s and “73”’s on my three wheels are date stamps.

 

But that doesn’t make all two-digit stamps into date stamps.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[JohnP_02]

Well, I found another one with the exact same markings, so that is interesting but doesn't really answer anything. Anyway this one has a very nice smooth horn button and is very solid and straight, but it needs a re-wrap. I think I will pass this one along and continue to refresh the first one. 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by JohnP_02

[Oldtimerfahrer]

I like the flat horn, but I already have one and only one ti to put it on...the spokes are surprisingly good on yours, I think mine had stopwatches mounted with clips that scratched the spokes... so yours would be a nice "patinated" example by just re-wrapping it.

Andrew

[Flunder]

Were the wood rim versions OE on 1600ti?

[JohnP_02]

Yes, but with an early smooth horn button. 
 

[Conserv]

On 1/11/2023 at 6:47 AM, JohnP_02 said:

Yes, but with an early smooth horn button. 
 

John,

 

Have you looked closely at the use of these smooth horn buttons, in terms of applications and dates? I haven’t, but am curious, and I have been… observing these issues!

 

For years, I, and others, have referred to them as a 1968 phenomenon — not knowing how much that “1968” adhered to model year, or calendar year, or some other sort of “year”. Early factory brochures of U.S.-spec ‘02’s, which were mandated by the U.S. D.O.T. to abandon the old two-spoke steering wheels and adopt the new three-spoke, show the smooth horn button.

 

So I view the smooth horn button as beginning in late 1967. But, at least with respect to the standard 421 mm. three-spoke “bus wheel”, the smooth horn button disappears (a.) with the 1969 model year, or (b.) around the end of the 1968 calendar year, or (c.) some other event or non-event vaguely in that time period.

 

For a 1600ti, manufactured from late 1967 into late 1968, the smooth horn button is the only thing that exists for the three-spoke steering wheels. So that’s what the 1600ti got. Makes perfect sense. But what about the 2002ti, introduced in late 1968, just as they wound down production of the 1600ti?

 

Lots of the faux-leather-rimmed, three-spoke sport wheels — probably standard on 2002ti models — received the smooth horn button, which was being phased out for the non-ti models. But other ti’s have the “fancy” molded horn button, as you find on ‘02’s with the standard bus wheel from 1969 forward.

 

When the faux-leather-rimmed sport wheel came to the U.S. in 1970 — temporarily, after the steering wheel factory inferno, or was it a strike, or was it a plastic shortage — it had the molded horn button. Which might say that BMW did not consider the smooth horn button an essential element of the sport wheel’s design, a rationale I dreamed up to explain why the smooth horn button survived, on 2002ti sport wheels, long after the smooth horn button disappeared from the standard bus wheel.

 

As you can tell, I’m searching for a pattern or clear explanation of this whole ‘02 horn button thing. If I’m lucky, you will devote a chapter to the topic in a book on ‘02 steering wheels!

 

I’m coming up with a title for the book I hope you’ll write:

 

At the Wheel: The Complete History of 2002 Steering Wheels, Factory and Aftermarket.

 

OK, maybe we can shorten that in time for your book tour:

 

Hot Wheels

Oh, that might be taken… 🙄

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[Oldtimerfahrer]

23 minutes ago, Conserv said:

But what about the 2002ti, introduced in late 1968, just as they wound down production of the 1600ti?

Well, my late ti has the smooth one. A non-euro spec version of the 1600ti/2002ti existed or did not exist? The only catalog picture I've seen where the sport 3 spoke is depicted also appears to show a smooth button as part but that is certainly no indicator...

I've only seen two other ti's in Germany and I dont remember what they had (aftermarket I think). Here I've seen a few with the other button, so no clue...

Andrew

[JohnP_02]

2 hours ago, Conserv said:

So I view the smooth horn button as beginning in late 1967. But, at least with respect to the standard 421 mm. three-spoke “bus wheel”, the smooth horn button disappears (a.) with the 1969 model year, or (b.) around the end of the 1969 calendar year, or (c.) some other event or non-event vaguely in that time period.

 

Steve, this is probably as close to accurate for the time frame of the smooth horn button as we will ever get. Really, that is a great summary and relays about exactly what I have found as well. Without date stamps on the horn buttons, let alone the steering wheels themselves, I think we are left with this consensus of dating. Its the same with early Momo's. Nobody knows 100% the dates of the early stamps, but there is a widely accepted dating range for the stampings on early Momo wheels as they did not include a date on the steering wheels before 1976. 

 

2 hours ago, Conserv said:

As you can tell, I’m searching for a pattern or clear explanation of this whole ‘02 horn button thing. If I’m lucky, you will devote a chapter to the topic in a book on ‘02 steering wheels!

 

I’m coming up with a title for the book I hope you’ll write:

 

At the Wheel: The Complete History of 2002 Steering Wheels, Factory and Aftermarket.

 

Amazing! Not sure about a book, but I should email @steve k. again about putting together the steering wheel database similar to your 2002 Wheels database. I think I finally have a format I settled on and may have enough time moving forward to work on it.

 

 

[Conserv]

19 minutes ago, JohnP_02 said:

… Not sure about a book, but I should email @steve k. again about putting together the steering wheel database similar to your 2002 Wheels database. I think I finally have a format I settled on and may have enough time moving forward to work on it.

 

OK, John!

I’d love that! 🙌

 

Oops: in the quote you took from my earlier posting, I should have said “(b.) around the end of the 1968 calendar year”.

 

Thanks and best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[steve k.]

I would love to get us back to creating the Steering Wheels database.  I started something a while ago, but did not get far. What kind of information do we want to collect?

1. Manufacturer
2. Name
3. Size
4. Production Years
5. ?

[JohnP_02]

32 minutes ago, steve k. said:

What kind of information do we want to collect?

Hey Steve! This is a very rough draft of what I was thinking about the last time I started working on it, so I guess something the picture below. It’s just SO hard to get some of the information and that’s been part of the hold up.

 

If you want to message me about how we can get started on this let me know! I am going to make @Hans W. help me also even though he doesn’t know that yet! 😁
 

 

*yes, I know the info in this draft is not all correct! It was just testing a format

Edited January 12, 2023 by JohnP_02

[Oldtimerfahrer]

Hi,

I would probably group the information relating to models, model years and whether it was on the BMW pricelist, so the originality lovers get the years and application information in one block or series of lines....

Andrew 

[JohnP_02]

@Oldtimerfahrer It will definitely include information about the dates it was used or when available. As far a the grouping, that is where it gets difficult because you have a lot of steering wheels that were used across models i.e. the Petri Sport which was available as an OEM option for 2002 and e9, so that’s why I opted for grouping by the manufacturer and then indicating which models it was meant for on a single line. 
 

There will probably be a need for a short narrative with each wheel that will explain things like this wheel was the factory wheel for 2002 ti but may have been found on some early 2002’s etc etc. 

[Oldtimerfahrer]

32 minutes ago, JohnP_02 said:

As far a the groupin

I didn't mean to group the entries in the database by vehicle, I only meant to group the attributes pertaining to vehicle visually together. So if you look at a particular wheel, where it was oem for a vehicle model, years when it was an option for that vehicle...

Andrew

[steve k.]

So, the items that are chosen by me can be used to filter entries, so if I add all of the manufacturers, you can filter by those, if we pick sizes, then they can be filtered by those.

 

So the fields so far are:

 

Manufacturer (drop down)

Model (free text)

Size (drop down)

BMW Model (possibly drop down)

Year range (free text)

Grip (drop down)

Hub (drop down?)

Bolt Pattern (drop down)

Horn Button (drop down)

Country of Origin?  (drop down)

Description (free text)

 

Anything else that i am missing?

 

Who wants t contribute to the "drop down" lists? I will always have "other" to collect things that we do not have. 

 

Steve