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Game Changer for S-14 Swaps


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I was watching this BAT auction trying to gauge the current market for S14 motors.  Apparently, S14 motors are headed in the same direction as the housing market.  Yes, it was a very nice, stock example and included a Getrag 265 transmission, but at this price it has me rethinking my strategy for the 1600 I'm building.

 

Mark92131

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1988-bmw-s14-m3-motor/

 

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Ridiculous !

 

If you're building a 1600, why not stay in character and build a 1600ti. Ok, you can build a 2.0 liter, but then you'll be like everybody else. Install a factory motor sport 300 degree cam for the 1600ti and you'll be in the 130hp-140hp range. The 1600 is light, barely tipping 2,000lbs. You can easily shave off 200-300lbs off if you're on a mission to do so, and you'll have  a really good and favorable power to weight ratio. If sticking with a 1.6L motor, I believe one could get the weight down in the 1,600 lb range with fiberglass doors, hood and deck lid and  plexi for glass. 

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Yeah, I made a couple of bids in the 8-8500 range to have a spare motor and trans.  I stopped after that and saw it ended at 21.  I don't really get the appeal- F20C or any of the K motors for WAY less money- and I'm really pretty averse to Honda.  I mean, speaking as a guy that has one (s14)- they're ok, but they're not 20k plus all the work to use it ok.

 

Don't get me wrong, they're cool, but that's just a lot of money for a 2.3 16v- even with all it's heritage.  It's almost like it's lost some of it's coolness to me because it's gotten so expensive.  Like part of what made it so cool was that it was attainable for most.

 

Rally Miata what?

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3 hours ago, Tdh said:

There are people out there that believe they can swap an s14 into a 2002 and sell it for 75k to 100k.  I thinks they’re nuts, but they’re out there. 

I agree with you, but the way things are going a plane Jane 2002 in very good shape will be 75K, soon. Some of the Tii and Ti cars are already fetching that much. As someone who has been driving and maintaining these cars for 40 years, most of the time on a shoe string budget, I find this unfortunate. I don't want to sell my cars, even if someone offered me $75K for each. It's not my objective to make money from my cars, but there are a lot of people out there whose sole goal is making money  and squeezing people out of the hobby.

 

This has already happened in the Porsche community about 10-20 years ago. That really clean Porsche 912 that cost $8k in 2008 is now $40K +. And, the likewise clean 67 short wheel base 2.0L 911 that went for $15K in 1998 is now $200K. Only the folks with big $$$ can play with those toys, now. 

 

But, unlike BMW, the Porsche community is intolerant of resto-mods. They're all about originality and period correct upgrades. 

 

We have yet to see what's going to happen with classic BMW's. At least there are still some good deals out there. A couple of days ago a 66 2000TI race car sold for $15K on BAT. It wasn't severely modified and could be brought back to stock or near stock condition, easily. It even came with a CR 5 speed gearbox and a spare motor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@M2M3,

hang in there, you might be able to at some point.  I wasn’t joking.  Ive heard  numbers like that thrown around lately by guys who I know can write the check.  Usually when those types start getting involved, things start picking up steam.  We’ll see. 
 

@Autostrada,

 

I hear you.  I just recently started planning a turbo build for my ‘71.  I’ll admit it that “destroying the value of the car” crossed my mind.  At the end of the day I came to my senses.  It’s my car, period, end of discussion.  I love everything about it, except that it’s slow.    An EFI/Turbo build allows me to involve my engineering student oldest son, and my two younger kids are also gonna help out.  The time spent with them helping out is worth infinitely more to me  than the value of the car.  In the end, I win twice.  I end up with something that I’ll love driving even more that my kids helped me build.   In short, I guess what I’m saying is you own the cars.  Do what you want with them and don’t worry about their value.  You won’t be around forever, so enjoy driving them while you’re here.  If BMW parts get too expensive, swap in a Honda F22!😀
 

Bonus..I’m pretty good at this shit so maybe I’ll increase the value of the car by swapping in the Turbo motor😂!  (Okay, okay, that’s my brain trying to help rationalize cutting the car a little to fit an intercooler.  Back to reality).  

Edited by Tdh
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2 hours ago, fastricky said:

A motor with more low end torque would be a more welcome swap IMHO

The stock 2.0L M10 with a single barrel Solex has more than plenty of low end torque. I run one such motor with a 4.11 LSD diff and a 240/5 overdrive gearbox. I feel I have too much low end, and I can climb moderately steep windy roads in 5th gear. On the highway, even on the steep grades, I never down shift to 4th. I'm always in 5th. This is with a stock and tired motor.

 

Adding additional stroke to a motor is an American "Hot_Rod" philosophy. If you are looking for a true high rpm endurance race motor, then you need to reduce stroke and bottom end torque. No !, it's not fun to drive on the street. Look what BMW sdid with their 1500cc turbocharged engines for Formula 1 back during the early 80s. And Alfa did the same with their 1.3L and 1.6L GTAs. They reduced the stroke quite severely while increasing the bore to maintain the same displacement. Some of the the 1600GTA supercharged cars were putting out 220hp. But, there was no low end. These things stalled below 4,000rpms. 

 

Ford was able to win Ferrari at Le Mans by building motors 2X-3X the displacement of Ferrari. The GT40, even in the small block 289 variant, was a lot bigger in displacement than the 3.0L Ferrari motors. The rules finally capped displacement and Ford was out of the competition. I think the big block ford was over 8.0L. But, the 289 small block GT40 was faster around the track at Le Mans than the big block variant.

 

Short stroke motors are a lot smoother and in many ways more pleasant to drive. A 1600 and a post 68 short stroke 1.8L are much smoother motors compared to the 2.0L. The longer stroke motors also beat up the bearings and wear out the rings sooner. Despite the higher RPM associated with short stroke motors, mean piston speeds are still lower in comparison to long stroke motors resulting in less wear on the rings and bore.  The lighter cranks and less reciprocating mass also result in less wear on the bearings. The S14 has a flaw in that it requires bearing service, translating to engine disassembly, sooner in comparison to the 2.0L and the 1.6L.  S14 motors are predisposed to premature bearing wear and failure. And, a lot of folks are still dying to use a S14 long stroke crank in their 02s. Why ? 

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10 minutes ago, Autostrada said:

But, unlike BMW, the Porsche community is intolerant of resto-mods. They're all about originality and period correct upgrades. 

 

 

Slav .... Rod Emory, Rob Dickinson, Jack Olsen, Magnus Walker, Dario Franchitti, Bruce Canepa (RIP), Daniel Ricciardo, Freeman Thomas, and hundreds more would like a word with you.  Unless there is a disconnect in how we are defining restomod.

 

As for this engine and it's sale ... lol.

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I think I may have gotten the last reasonably priced S14 several years ago from one of the good 2002 people who wasn't out to make a buck on the market. I am very thankful to have made those kinda friendships over the years here on FAQ and and places like MidAmerica02Fest.  There is simply no way I could have justified buying one on the open market; back then, or especially now. 

 

Could I build a "faster" and "cheaper" 2002 with a turbo M44? yeah... Could I get more grunt from an M20? maybe so...  Would a Honda lump rev higher and make more ponies? perhaps... Each owner builds what he wants and I will build this S14. I have the finished project in my mind and I think it will be cool. Will I flip it once it's done...not likely.  I really just need to get busy on it, though.

 

I do feel sorry for those who think they have to buy an M motor on BAT, or fleaBay... those numbers are simply ridiculous.

 

EdZ

 

 

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