Jump to content

Oil in the 123 and no spark in two cylinders


sczapiga
 Share

Recommended Posts

 

So about 15 min into the rally from Santa Rosa to Lake Sonoma Saturday we had a big loss of power. We were ripping  over a crest in third and the car started limping and missing. We pulled over, starting checking it out with the help of some awesome people that stopped and found:

 

- Weber 32/36 water choke carb

       Diaphragm on the rear of choke loosened up and fell off. We robbed some screws from the glove box latch and put it back on. 
 

- Front two cylinders had no spark, replaced the plugs tried them and nothing

 

- 123 dizzy we noticed had a pool of oil under the cap… 

 

 

- Still no spark, it got a roll back ride home to further diagnose.

 

- Now, we just changed the oil in it Friday evening. I dumped 4 qts in it and nothing on the stick. I ended up putting 5 qts in it to get to the half way between the hash marks. I didn’t put more in because I thought 5 qts would be plenty. 
 

- Theory… could the dip stick be misadjusted? The PO had a long block installed some time ago and maybe it wasn’t adjusted correctly. Could the excess oil have run up the shaft of the 123 dizzy and shorted/fried out the circuit board? Seems pretty crappy for a $500 dizzy if that’s the case. But there’s oil and only spark to the back two cylinders🤷🏻‍♀️

 

I’m planning on putting the stock dizzy back on to see if the oil fried the 123? Then hopefully 123 will help fix or replace the dizzy since it’s about 2 months old:(  I kinda wish I just kept the stock dizzy with a spare set of points and condenser. 
 

Anyone have any thoughts? 
🙏🏼

74B6FC3C-C463-484D-BE1D-B6ED74BFF252.jpeg

35FC0C87-CACB-4D38-82AB-1570C7943152.jpeg

2EF51296-EDAF-4530-A3E4-DAA9C23D50F6.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There have been quite a few threads about oil intrusion in the 123. 

 

They now offer a replacement seal for the little o-ring on the shaft and also make a shaft that has a groove in it to help keep the oil down (similar to the Bosch shaft).  You can either buy the parts and install them yourself, or send the distributor to them and pay a fee to have them installed.

 

https://123ignitionusa.com/add-on-modified-shaft-for-bmw/

 

Tom

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you but heres an update...

 

Today we put the old factory dizzy back in and nothing changed. However, we did find that the #1 and #2 pistons did have spark, we must have rushed and not noticed on the side of the road. 

 

So I don't believe the 123 dizzy was impacted by it. 

 

What I do know:

 

The 32/36 water carb lost the cap off the diaphragm and the spring is AWOL. Not sure if this could be making it run like it is but I doubt it. 

 

There appears to be a rattling around sound in the head area. We pulled the valve cover off and everything seemed to be intact and no broken things we could see. 

 

We plan on doing a leak down test. Maybe I floated a valve? This will be my first venture with internal components of the engine but I guess its a good time to learn:)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WRT the oil level in your engine possibly causing the problem you encountered.  Distributor innards, whether conventional, Pertronix or 123--don't like oil intruding.

 

An M10 with a 2002 oil pan should hold about 4.3 quarts of oil when you also change the filter (which you should do as a matter of course).  Five quarts is a bit too much, and could have caused part of your problem. 

 

In addition, there were several different dipstick tubes used on 2002s over the years, and at least two different dipsticks.  Early cars had an aluminum casting that bolted to the block with a steel tube pressed into it.  The dipstick for those tubes has a red painted handle end.  Later cars had a short piece of tubing that was pressed into the block, then a section of rubber tubing and finally another piece of steel tubing that was fastened via bracket to the intake manifold.  Its dipstick had a yellow-painted handle end.  I've never compared the two in length, but I'm sure someone on the board has.  So...make sure that the dipstick you have matches its tube or you'll most likely get an incorrect reading.

 

mike

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't sweat the oil level, and I sure wouldn't link it to ignition failure.

 

The M10 with a stock pan can handle 5+ quarts without aeration-

and what you'll notice is dropping oil pressure if you go over about 5 1/2.

But only with hard cornering at higher revs.

 

"

- Front two cylinders had no spark, replaced the plugs tried them and nothing

"

change the wires, too. lots of them fail or simply disconnect themselves at the plug 

end with heat.  I snip a quarter inch off and screw them back into the plug ends.

 

Compression first- it's a subjective test, but it rules out more things than a leakdown,

which is a more objective test of cylinder seal- but only at TDC.  The 

compression tester's cheaper, and a cheapo is all you need.

 

If 1 and 2 aren't making power (pull the plug wire, see what changes)

the most likely thing is the head gasket bridge between the cylinders.

 

t

off with her head!

(after testing, of course)

 

t

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Mike Self said:

WRT the oil level in your engine possibly causing the problem you encountered.  Distributor innards, whether conventional, Pertronix or 123--don't like oil intruding.

 

An M10 with a 2002 oil pan should hold about 4.3 quarts of oil when you also change the filter (which you should do as a matter of course).  Five quarts is a bit too much, and could have caused part of your problem. 

 

In addition, there were several different dipstick tubes used on 2002s over the years, and at least two different dipsticks.  Early cars had an aluminum casting that bolted to the block with a steel tube pressed into it.  The dipstick for those tubes has a red painted handle end.  Later cars had a short piece of tubing that was pressed into the block, then a section of rubber tubing and finally another piece of steel tubing that was fastened via bracket to the intake manifold.  Its dipstick had a yellow-painted handle end.  I've never compared the two in length, but I'm sure someone on the board has.  So...make sure that the dipstick you have matches its tube or you'll most likely get an incorrect reading.

 

mike

 

 

Thanks Mike, I know I have the yellow dip stick but I’ll check the tube and mounting block. I do know it has the short length of hose near the base with two hose clamps. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

 

change the wires, too. lots of them fail or simply disconnect themselves at the plug 

end with heat.  I snip a quarter inch off and screw them back into the plug ends.

Good idea 👍🏼 I did notice a weak spark once we checked it back at home, so maybe trimming the wires will help. 

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

 

If 1 and 2 aren't making power (pull the plug wire, see what changes)

the most likely thing is the head gasket bridge between the cylinders.

 

 

Funny my dad just had a long chat with an old friend about it and that’s exactly what he said. Very helpful, thank you. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...