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15x7 and E21 hubs


02dag
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I have E21 hubs and ventilated discs installed on my car on the front axle. The wheels and tires are BBS 6x13 ET 13 and 185/70/13. They are poking too much out. I have stock fenders.

 

I want to change to 15x7 ET 25 and 195s but willtheyfit.com says that they will poke out the same amount as my 6x13s.

 

A lot of people run 15x7 ET25 and even with 3 or 5 mm spacers. How is that possible?

 

I have started to think that the E21 hub is increasing the track width of the car to som degree. Does anyone know how much?

 

On the rear axle I know that the track width is changed at least 5mm on each side because of a disc conversion. They are rubbing there. I havent been able to get adapters that fit properly and needed to use spacers etc.

Edited by 02dag
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4 hours ago, 02dag said:

I havent been able to get adapters that fit properly and needed to use spacers etc.

You’re correct that the 15x7 et 25 with 195/50s will have the same poke as the 13s you cited (within .5mm). And that the 15x7 et25 with the 195s is a popular wheel size that typically requires no fender rolling, and has no rubbing.

 

And it’s possible to gain some track width (couple mm) in swapping alternate brakes. There’s that much track variability between regular/tii/turbo and between early/late model years. And of course we’re dealing with 40-50 year old cars with that added ‘age’ variation. 

 

What I’m confused about is your last comment that I quoted.

 

Are you running spacers or PCD adapters on your existing 13s? Either will alter the offset of the wheels, adding more poke. The thinnest PCD adapters are 15mm added, most are 25mm added. When using Willtheyfit, any added spacers or adapter widths need to be added to the wheel offset.

 

Also, I’m unsure if your poke issue is upfront or in the rear. You mention the fronts initially but at the end it’s about the rears.  Lastly, what are the exact front & rear hub and brake changes you’re running?

 

Tom

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I'm pretty sure the e21 hubs don't change the track width, since when I put them on I didn't have any tire rubbing issues or changes in alignment.

 

When I put your specifications into tiresize.com and rimntires.com wheel/tire size comparer (both much better than willtheyfit.com) they says the 15x7s should stick out 7mm less than the 13x6s.

 

One thing you have to always remember is these calculators don't factor in the variation in tire make and manufacturer dimensions. If you measure 3 different 195/50r15 tires you'll get 3 slightly different measurements. Also weight of the car, tire pressure, lowering springs and alignment can all effect tire clearance.

 

Your 13x6 et13 wheels were probably meant to fit a e21, they stick out 25mm or 1" more than the  factory steel wheels.

 

I would suggest you see if someone who has some 15x7 et25 wheels will let you try one of their wheels on your car to be sure.

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24 minutes ago, 2002iii said:

When I put your specifications into tiresize.com and rimntires.com wheel/tire size comparer (both much better than willtheyfit.com) they says the 15x7s should stick out 7mm less than the 13x6s.

Nope.  The poke difference is 0.7mm...

Screen Shot 2021-09-09 at 2.24.27 PM.png

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39 minutes ago, 2002iii said:

I'm pretty sure the e21 hubs don't change the track width, since when I put them on I didn't have any tire rubbing issues or changes in alignment.

 

When I put your specifications into tiresize.com and rimntires.com wheel/tire size comparer (both much better than willtheyfit.com) they says the 15x7s should stick out 7mm less than the 13x6s.

 

One thing you have to always remember is these calculators don't factor in the variation in tire make and manufacturer dimensions. If you measure 3 different 195/50r15 tires you'll get 3 slightly different measurements. Also weight of the car, tire pressure, lowering springs and alignment can all effect tire clearance.

 

Your 13x6 et13 wheels were probably meant to fit a e21, they stick out 25mm or 1" more than the  factory steel wheels.

 

I would suggest you see if someone who has some 15x7 et25 wheels will let you try one of their wheels on your car to be sure.


Lets break it down. A 6 inch wide ET 13 wheel is on the car. If we change only the width to 7 inches the wheel gains approximately 12.5mm on the inside and outside of the wheel. Now if we change the offset of the 7 inch wheel to ET25 we shift the entire wheel inboard 12mm putting the outer lip within 1mm of the 13x6 wheel. 

Not sure what kind of math that calculator is using?!


 

 

 

 

Edit: Damn I’m a slow typer!

 

 

 

 

..

Edited by Lorin
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Don't believe random generic internet fitting websites.  Believe the hundreds, or thousands, of 02 owners on this site that have 15x7 et25 wheels on their cars.  There are zillions of pictures of these wheels on our cars.

 

It is not a claim.  It is decades of evidence.

Edited by M2M3
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1 hour ago, 2002iii said:

I'm so confused now because according to what the OP  said and willtheyfit.com 15x7 et25 with 195/50 tires will not fit under stock fenders like lots of people claim.

 

They do sit farther out than stock wheels, which sit way inside the fenders… but these fit.  Camber plates for the 15x7 et25 (27 being more ideal) set-up aren’t required.


Does the OP have the stated 13x6s with tires mounted? Might they have any altered suspension geometry?  More info be betters…


 

26 minutes ago, M2M3 said:

It is decades of evidence.

Preach on brother Marshall… 🤘

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[EDIT] I originally posted this from my phone, but I don't know why my comments weren't included. 

 

Here is just a reference picture.  These are ROTA 15x7 with et25 and 195/50 Continental tires, stock hubs, no spacers. In the picture the car is set up with about -1 degree of camber.  I've since had a corner balance done, and the front is almost an inch lower.  I have not noticed any rubbing at all, and the fenders are not rolled or anything. 

 

 

image.jpeg

Edited by wheelieking
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57 minutes ago, M2M3 said:

Don't believe random generic internet fitting websites.  Believe the hundreds, or thousands, of 02 owners on this site that have 15x7 et25 wheels on their cars.  There are zillions of pictures of these wheels on our cars.

 

It is not a claim.  It is decades of evidence.

To clarify I was questioning the information on the willtheyfit.com not  all of the evidence on here. I should have worded it differently.

29 minutes ago, visionaut said:

 

They do sit farther out than stock wheels, which sit way inside the fenders… but these fit.  Camber plates for the 15x7 et25 (27 being more ideal) set-up aren’t required.


Does the OP have the stated 13x6s with tires mounted? Might they have any altered suspension geometry?  More info be betters…


 

Preach on brother Marshall… 🤘

If you look at my first post I mentioned that many factors can effect clearance.

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19 minutes ago, 2002iii said:

I was questioning the information on the willtheyfit.com

I don’t see or understand what you’re seeing in the offset calculator website that says they do or don’t fit. Nothing there provides info on ‘what fits an 02’ - they just let you compare two different wheels/tires yo each other.

 

So some other info you have is being compared to the provided info to summarize they don’t fit. What fitment measure  width/offset for ‘fits an 02’ are you using?? Please share.

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Due to the time difference and a lot of things to do yesterday evening, I have not been able to answer all your posts.

 

Just to clarify things. Willtheyfit says that 15x7 will poke out 0.7 mm more than before. Not 7mm. This is approx 1/40 inch. So it is basically the same.

 

My 6x13 wheels on the rear axle are rubbing when fully loaded. This is however due to the before mentioned disc conversion. I had a bracket for the calipers that made me put a 5 mm spacer to make the discs fit. It will be better if I replace the brackets with something else. And I will.

 

On the front axle they are better, but will rub when hitting a bump in the road and hard braking at the same time. And yes they are mounted on the car. The suspension is not modified in any other way than a stiffer stabilizer bar and some bilstein shocks.

 

15x7 wheels and 195 tyres will probably be a little stretched so that they will fit a tiny bit better on the car. With a camber plate it will probably be even a little bit more so.

 

Back to my question about track width. Since this is a wheel configuration that is common to our cars without any problems, I think it is strange that someone uses this wheel setup with spacers and not have problems with stock fenders. That is why I believe that not so many of you run the E21 hubs and that there actually is a difference.

 

 

 

 

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