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M10 Elring cutter ring head gasket


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Does anyone have the torque specs for an Elring cutter ring head gasket (#248.801)?  I have three NOS gaskets, one of which I am using on the M10 I am building up with a Schrick 304 billet cam facsimile from Ireland Eng., plus NOS forged Arias pistons. 

 

I used these back in the day ('90s) on our GT3 engines and had good luck.  However, I have lost the torque specs and instructions which are different from the stock gasket.  As I recall, there was an initial torque for the bolts plus an angle turn to a certain degree to provide the required tension.

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What compression are you running? I am not a fan of the “cutter ring” gaskets. Yes they do offer a bit more resistance to compression deformation of the flame ring but they also require that you surface the head EVERY TIME you remove it to give fresh aluminum for the gasket to cut into. If you are running under 11.5:1 compression at standard gasket is more than capable of the job.  If you need more than that a MLS gasket would be my choice.  
 

if they are old stock gaskets I would worry about the gasket getting hard and not sealing the water and oil passageways. 

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I have had good luck over the years using non MLS gaskets ( with and without cutter rings) on race engines between 12-13.5:1. With stock head bolts I have used 70 ft/lbs ( with oil on the threads and under the head of the bolt) I usually start at 25 ft/lbs then 3 more steps to get to 70.  After a few heat cycles retorque to 70 without backing them off.  
 

if you are running ARP head studs DO NOT US THE TORQUE SPEC THEY PUT IN THE INSTRUCTIONS!!!!   You will CRUSH THE HEAD AROUND THE ROCKER SHAFTS!

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On 8/30/2021 at 2:10 AM, Preyupy said:

What compression are you running? I am not a fan of the “cutter ring” gaskets. Yes they do offer a bit more resistance to compression deformation of the flame ring but they also require that you surface the head EVERY TIME you remove it to give fresh aluminum for the gasket to cut into. If you are running under 11.5:1 compression at standard gasket is more than capable of the job.  If you need more than that a MLS gasket would be my choice.  
 

if they are old stock gaskets I would worry about the gasket getting hard and not sealing the water and oil passageways. 

My cylinder head was previously milled uneven, so I had it surfaced and the valves vacuum tested by a long time local BMW machine shop.  Now the head is at the minimum thickness so I went ahead and bought the cutting ring gasket (after consulting Rob Torres of 2002 Haus).   

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4 hours ago, jgerock said:

My cylinder head was previously milled uneven, so I had it surfaced and the valves vacuum tested by a long time local BMW machine shop.  Now the head is at the minimum thickness so I went ahead and bought the cutting ring gasket (after consulting Rob Torres of 2002 Haus).   

If you are worried about "minimum thickness" using a cutter ring head gasket means that the next time you remove the head it is done.  That is just old technology and not necessary today.  If you are worried about your compression and running a stock non cutter ring gasket use a MLS one.  Just my $.02

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2 hours ago, Preyupy said:

If you are worried about "minimum thickness" using a cutter ring head gasket means that the next time you remove the head it is done.  That is just old technology and not necessary today.  If you are worried about your compression and running a stock non cutter ring gasket use a MLS one.  Just my $.02

So the factory minimum specs can be ignored?  My tii is street use only.  Hope it doesn’t have to rebuilt again anytime soon.  

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2 hours ago, jgerock said:

So the factory minimum specs can be ignored?  My tii is street use only.  Hope it doesn’t have to rebuilt again anytime soon.  

There are problems with timing chain tensioner travel (it can only take up so much slack), cam timing (use an adjustable gear), Piston to valve clearance etc when the head gets too thin.  The factory "min thickness" is not a hard stop but there are other things you have to deal with when they get that thin.  

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I build my 'race' motors cut a full mm.  

 

But as Byron says, I run an adjustable cam sprocket and custom pistons.

I tried stock pistons once.  I still have that block- it's cracked everywhere!

 

I also don't use the cutting ring gaskets. 

At 11.highx :1 on avgas, even Mr Reinz's gaskets hold

up just fine.  I typically have a head off 2-4 times before I refresh 

an engine, so the cutting ring version isn't cost- effective for me.

And I don't even recut for a refresh unless I have to- which isn't all that often.

 

And I'm on the other end of the financial spectrum...

 

t

 

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