do we have a bad starter?

[esty]

we wired the 72 as we've been discussing here in another thread...we ran a wire from fuse 12 to Coil + terminal…it is powered when the key in on

there is 12 at starter via the batter cable...the small wires to solenoid go back to fuses that are hot when the key is turned to the start position…I believe that is how it should be

the starter will not move, the solenoid will not spin…we tried jumping from the battery + to the solenoid and got nothing...solenoid should click, spin or do something...right?  ground cable from battery to engine block is solid

 

do we have a bad starter?

[halboyles]

Weak starter, weak battery combination?  You should have about 12.6v at the starter.  Also, fuses shouldn't be hot unless there is a problem in the circuit.

[Son of Marty]

 Sounds like the solenoid is bad you should hear the electromagnet actuate or at least feel it move if not something is wrong with the solenoid, are there 2 small wire terminals on your solenoid if so try moving the small wire to the other one, if still no go try (carefully) shorting the 2 large battery connections together with a large screw driver the starter motor should spin verifying that the solenoid is bad. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Son of Marty

[esty]

37 minutes ago, Son of Marty said:

 there 2 small wire terminals on your solenoid if so try moving the small wire to the other one, if still no go try (carefully) shorting the 2 large battery connections together with a large screw driver the starter motor should spin verifying that the solenoid is bad. 

we did all of that...

 

when we 1st hooked things up and turned the key we got a couple of small, faint clicks  from the solenoid and nothing since

 

seems to me if the solenoid is good we should be able to lay the starter on the ground, connect a battery to the starter then jump the battery post on the starter to the solenoid and get a spin

 

 

[2002iii]

You can always try the hit it with a hammer trick, might get it to spin a few more times.

 

I would suggest replacing it with the later m30 mini starter, smaller, more powerful and a better design.

[Son of Marty]

What is your voltage across the battery? Also measure your voltage at the starter to a body ground and between the 2 high amp connections on the starter, 12v+ at all points? if so obviously the starter should try to rotate. Do you have a spare starter?

[tech71]

2 hours ago, esty said:

do we have a bad starter?

If you jumped from a good battery source, probably yes...

Unless the starter has a crappy path to ground, got a good path from the engine to chassis to negative batt terminal? Negative batt terminal clean and tight?

Edited July 22, 2021 by tech71

[esty]

i have 2 older starters that i don't remember where they came from...i believe one was a working starter i took off my76 about 10 years ago when i upgraded that car to the small m3 starter...we're going to try it tomorrow and see what happens

 

 

[Buckeye]

4 minutes ago, esty said:

i have 2 older starters that i don't remember where they came from... we're going to try it tomorrow and see what happens

Bench test them before replacement. Lot easier

[Mike Self]

Quick way to pinpoint a bad starter vs a weak battery:  turn the headlights on, and turn the key to start.  If the headlights dim, then the starter is trying to work because it's drawing current, and the problem may be a weak battery or poor connections somewhere.  If the lights stay bright, then the starter either isn't getting current at all, or it's not functioning.  

 

mike

 

 

[esty]

Steve was out at daybreak this morning, working on getting the car to crank...he took the starter off, bench tested it and it checked out as good..he put it back on the car, turned the key and magic...the motor started turning, he turned the key again, starter spun engine then a spark and the starter stopped...he is right back to where he started

 

it's strange that putting power to the starter on the car and jumping the solenoid pin directly from the battery does not excite the solenoid...the small wires to the solenoid are hot when turning the key to the start position

 

i suggested that he put the other starter on, he bench tested it and it is good on the table (but so was the one on the car now)...he remembers that starter worked and was pulled from the 76 to installed a M3 starter

 

my money is on a bad starter...even though it check out as good out of the car

 

 

['76mintgrün'02]

41 minutes ago, esty said:

my money is on a bad starter...even though it check out as good out of the car

 

my money is on the the ground strap, if they work on the bench and not in the car.

Tom

 

edit -- assuming you are  using the same battery.

Edited July 23, 2021 by '76mintgrün'02

[jimk]

1 hour ago, esty said:

it's strange that putting power to the starter on the car and jumping the solenoid pin directly from the battery does not excite the solenoid

I'm with Tom on the bad ground if the solenoid doesn't energize.

[Mike Self]

To check for a bad ground (block to battery), try connecting a jumper cable from the block directly to the - battery post and then trying the starter.  Or, one of you turn the key to start while the other puts a finger on the carburetor linkage.  Absent a good ground, the carb linkage is the ground path for current, and will quickly get hot when starter amperage is applied to it.

 

mike

[esty]

Mike...i laughed when i read your last post and the several above it...i was getting ready to say mystery solved...steve figured out a bad ground by connected a battery cable to the block next to the starter and the negative battery terminal and it spins...it turns slow with a full battery which could suggest that starter we took off of the 76 is bad...when the engine turned yesterday with the 1st battery it was spinning normally

 

right now the ground is from the side of engine block to battery with the small leg going to the fender...he's adding another ground strap from one of the starter bolts to the side of the battery

 

next adventure will be spark and fuel