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Hard Start


ramayah

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Tom,

Thanks. I did exactly as directed. I snipped off the plastic tube and inserted into the sender nipple. I tightened everything, trunk , pump and carb.. 

I tried to start it but it wouldn’t start. So I primed it and it started. I let it run to operating temperature and shut it off. I will give it some time and try it again. If it doesn’t start then I’ll try some of your other suggestions to see if the pump is no good.

As I said before, when I crank it , no gas  is coming out from the pump to the carburetor.

Thanks again to you and everyone who are so helpful.

Randy 

 

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Tom,

 I know the pump is not pumping fuel because I removed the fuel line going  to the carb. When I crank the engine no fuel  is coming out of the fuel line going to the carb.

The pump is centered perfectly. It does have the O ring seal between the pump and the Bakelite housing.

With regards to switching the filter between the pump and carb, I’ll think about it. 
So far I’m  not getting any problems with the vacuum; I’ll see about it once I got the starting issue resolved.

Thanks for all the links. I’ll same them for future use.

Regards

Randy

 

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38 minutes ago, ramayah said:

The pump is centered perfectly. It does have the O ring seal between the pump and the Bakelite housing.

 

O-ring seal?  I am referring to the Bakelite spacers shown in the diagram.  #3.  They have flanges on top that would be visible underneath the nuts/washers holding it to the head and I do not see them there.  I also see that the pump is shifted towards the back of the engine in the photo you posted, but maybe you have centered it since then.  Part #3 (x2) will center the pump holes on the studs.   Yer missin' thoze.

Randy's fuel pump (2).jpeg

 

 

I do not see an O-ring seal between the pump and Bakelite spacer in the diagram.  That is typically a gasket.

 

 

   

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Tom,

Please see this photo I took out from a different angle and let me know if something is not right. Since I owned the car only once the fuel pump has been replaced by a mechanic. 
I thought you meant the seal between the pump and the Bakelite spacer.Sorry.

 

9ACB5DD6-8F7F-4F44-BD64-33CD14897248.jpeg

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O-ring --- seal --- gasket --- I remembered the following quote after typing my last response

 

On 7/4/2021 at 6:52 PM, ramayah said:

The question is why fuel is not pump out into the carb. Fuel goes into the pump pump but it remains there.

I’m not familiar with technical terms like ‘diverter ‘ and ‘sleeve’ and vacuum unit etc. So, please if you may,  keep it simple  and direct me where to find things as you did with the fuel return valve. 
I will send you photos to let you  know if I’m doing the right  this.

 

I've read so much on this site that I consider most of what I know to be common knowledge.  I forget that technical terms aren't part of everyone's vocabulary.  It is hard to know how much detail to try to included and very time consuming if I get carried away typing.

 

Your photos are very helpful.  Thank you for adding them.

 

As for the pump needing to be replaced, I'll repeat my suggestion.  Put the incoming hose in a bottle of fuel and the outgoing hose in an empty bottle and crank the engine to see if it moves fuel.  If it doesn't, order that long neck pump from Blunt.  Do not order the short pump.

 

If it does pump fuel from bottle to bottle, your pump might be okay.  Although it could be weak or something, but if it runs once it is primed and goes fast and stuff, there is a good chance it still works. 

 

When you pull the hose at the carburetor to check for fuel, the return valve is still in line and I wonder if it could be blocking fuel, or sending it back to the tank.  That is what that valve does.  It returns 'extra' fuel back to the tank inside a fuel line that runs down the driver's side of the car, underneath. 

 

Taking the diverter valve out of the fuel pump test seems like a good idea to me.  

 

You can eliminate that valve altogether, but have to plug the line at the tank.  I can't type out each step of that process for you, but it is pretty "simple".

 

 

Did you look at the diagram of the fuel pump I posted?  Do you see parts numbered three?  There are two of them.  One on each of the studs that hold the pump on.  Here is a photo of my pump and you can see the ends of those parts underneath the washers/nuts.  They look like brown washers, but they are Bakelite spacers.

 

068.JPG

 

Your mechanic neglected to put those parts in, so I am suggesting that you use the part number below to order a pair.  They're cheap.  Blunt can get them for you and you can add them to the order, if you do buy a new pump.  

 

                                    #3 Insulating bushing (2)  13310075752 $1.57

 

It feels like a delicate balance between keeping it simple and giving too much information.  I feel like I am spending too much time typing/retyping information.  This problem might be beyond my type-abilities.  I'd help you fix it if you primed it and drove it over here, but keyboard repair work doesn't seem to be working very well.

 

Tom

 

EDIT -- I am using "diverter valve" and "return valve" to describe the same thing.

Edited by '76mintgrün'02
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I still say you should replace those old fuel lines (with dry-looking cracked-ends) and get some proper fitting new clamps that aren't all rusty, so they will get a good grip on that nice soft new hose. 

 

Hoses get old and wear out before they actually leak fuel.  It is a matter of maintenance to replace them occasionally. 

 

You're due for new. 

 

Any air getting sucked into the line keeps the pump from priming itself and also lets the fuel in the line drain back to the tank.

 

 

 

Tom

Edited by '76mintgrün'02

   

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Tom,

I’ll try the bottle method you suggested.

Meanwhile, it started up right away this morning July 6. 
I’m not going to buy a pump until I’m sure it’s not working. If it sits for a week or so and it fails to start I’ll do the bottle technique.

Also I’ll replace all the fuel hoses later per your advice.

I appreciate the time you take with me and sharing your knowledge in resolving my problem. Not to mention of your patience.

Regards 

Randy

 

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Tom,

The insulating bushing is present but it’s hard to see. It’s really mashed up. I’ll get a new one.
If you are located in New York I will drive over. I’ll send you a picture of the bushing intact .

Thanks

Randy

52B24479-8001-4E84-B79E-0B71062B1D97.jpeg

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Tom,

Are all the fuel line hoses 5/16”?. The first thing I’ll do is to remove the diverter valve and plug the line in the tank. But I just like to know if they are all 5/16”.

But it’s too hot here in NY to do any work.

Thanks

Randy

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19 minutes ago, ramayah said:

The insulating bushing is present but it’s hard to see. It’s really mashed up. I’ll get a new one.
If you are located in New York I will drive over.

 

Be sure to get two insulating bushings.  One for each stud.  Also order two gaskets.  The part number will be on that diagram.  You could also order new nuts and washers, since they are so cheap and have a neat little kit, with washers the same size as the bushings.  There's fun to be had in the little details.

 

I am in Washington State.  Come on over!

 

2 minutes ago, ramayah said:

Are all the fuel line hoses 5/16”?. The first thing I’ll do is to remove the diverter valve and plug the line in the tank. But I just like to know if they are all 5/16”.

 

I think you will find that the outlet nipple on the fuel pump and the inlet nipple on the diverter valve are smaller than 5/16", so they used smaller fuel line there.  (true?)  The hose would be 1/4" or 6mm I.D..  The hose on yours might be 5/16" now and just squished down by the clamps.  That's wrong.

 

If you eliminate the diverter valve, you are now connecting the pump directly to the carburetor, which has a 5/16" nipple.  I used a piece of the plastic line from the trunk to make the outlet nipple larger on my pump, so I can use 5/16" hose there too.

 

068.JPG

 

Another option is to move your fuel filter so it is in between the pump and carburetor.  The filters usually have stepped nipples, with a small end and a larger O.D. near the filter.  That would allow you to use 1/4" hose from the pump to the filter and 5/16" hose from the filter to the carburetor.  


Choose your hose lengths carefully when cutting, to make pleasant sweeping curves.  Don't stress the fuel filter by putting it in a tight curve.

 

If you remove the diverter valve, don't throw it away.  They're a good thing when they are set up and working properly.  People remove them to "simplify" while getting rid of emissions equipment.

 

Someone removed the one on my car before I got it.  I installed a double outlet filter from a '76 Jeep and used the second nipple to feed my return line back to the tank.  That allows the extra fuel pressure to bleed off after the car is turned off.  You could install of those if you are so inspired and eliminate the clear plastic one altogether.

 

Here is one example--

https://www.autozone.com/filters-and-pcv/fuel-filter/fram-fuel-filter-g3583/625199_0_0

 

I put a piece of rubber hose on mine, to pad it where it rests on the alternator.

 

IMG_9109.JPG

There is a skinny plastic light blue/white-ish line near the top of the firewall.  That is the vent line from the fuel tank.  That is something to inspect while you are at it.  It is part of the fuel "system".

 

Tom

 

 

   

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Hello Tom,

UPDATE:

It started at first turn of the key on Thursday 3:06 pm. 
Bought 6’ 5/16 hose with clamps and filters; 6’ 1/4” hose also with clamps and filter . May not use 1:4” but will keep it in stock. Great deal at Amazon.

Will install them when it’s cooler. Also will move filter between pump and carb.

Thanks again to you and everyone for their help. I appreciate it.

Randy

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