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Hard Start


ramayah

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45 minutes ago, ramayah said:

I did snip out a pieced of the black line  coming out of the tank and clamped it tightly.

 

That's what it looks like, but that is not what I described above.  (twice)

 

You've clamped large hose onto small nipple, hoping for the best.  I won't bother typing it again.  Here's a photo for you though.

Cracked Fuel Sender Sleeve - BMW 2002 and other '02 - BMW 2002 FAQ

 

The coolant hose you have going between the divider and the manifold is a length of straight hose bent to fit.  The original part is L shaped, so it goes straight under the fuel pump and then turns sharply to attach to the manifold.  The stock part will keep the hose from touching the fuel pump.  It's not what's keeping you from starting now, but a heated fuel pump is a bad thing.

 

The Pierberg pump you show is the stubby kind.  Do the search I mentioned there are tOns of discussions on why not to buy that pump.  Pierberg is a brand name.  They make/made more than one model.  Do not buy that model.  Buy the long neck style.  You'll find examples using the search function and reading a few old posts on this topic.

 

Here is one example/option

 

https://www.blunttech.com/shop/replacement-parts/fuel-delivery/13-31-1-257-784

 

 

I'd still try a fool proof pump test before ordering a new pump.  Carefully, as Ray suggested.

 

Thanks for the photos.
Tom

 

 

Edited by '76mintgrün'02
Blunt link added

   

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After you get it started by priming the carb does it keep running? If so your fuel pump is working fine, give it a hand by making sure your fuel lines are air tight, like Tom said, also if you replace the fuel pump order the correct fuel pump rod with it, there are two sizes and they don't play mix and match well.

If everybody in the room is thinking the same thing, then someone is not thinking.

 

George S Patton 

Planning the Normandy Break out 1944

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Tom,

I’m very sorry I’m frustrating you. I really didn’t understand what sleeve you were talking about until I saw your photo. 
However, the rubber line looks larger than the nipple but it  fits snugly and clamped tightly.

I do not have such a plastic sleeve as in your photo. Is it for sale anywhere?

If you think air is still coming from there can I I I just tape it with electric or duck tape?

Thanks for a new pump information from Blunt. I do appreciate your patience. 

Randy

 

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No worries.  I should have dug up that photo sooner.  

 

No.  Do not use tape.

 

The sender nipple is 6mm O.D. and the plastic fuel line that runs through the cabin is 8mm O.D., so I don't see how you get a tight fit on both without the sleeve. 

 

I'll type this one last time, you can snip a little inch long piece off of the plastic fuel line that runs through the cabin and push that onto the tank nipple, to mimic the original plastic sleeve.  No need to buy an original BMW sleeve, but I do believe they are still available.  

 

As Marty said, if your car runs once the carb has been primed, your pump is working.  I wouldn't spend $120 on a new one just yet.

 

Your car still has the fuel return valve installed between the pump and the carburetor.  That long skinny nipple on the battery side of the diverter should have a vacuum line attached to it.

 

I typed [fuel return valve vacuum attachment] into the search window and got some results for you to read through.  

 

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/search/?&q=fuel return valve vacuum attachment&search_and_or=and&sortby=relevancy

 

Tom

   

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I do have fuel return valve on the car.

I don’t see any plastic  coming out of the firewall I can clip and used as a sleeve on the fuel sender small nibble.  There is a plastic line in the trunk clamped on to the same black rubber line attached on the sender. 
 

The question is why fuel is not pump out into the carb. Fuel goes into the pump pump but it remains there.

I’m not familiar with technical terms like ‘diverter ‘ and ‘sleeve’ and vacuum unit etc. So, please if you may,  keep it simple  and direct me where to find things as you did with the fuel return valve. 
I will send you photos to let you  know if I’m doing the right  this.
 

 

5BDFFF4B-4D2C-40D4-913B-C6D4DC0BCB3F.jpeg

EB5158B8-2009-47B9-98F7-901C53807C68.jpeg

466900E8-D000-40C2-9D1F-9A262D8AC2D0.jpeg

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27 minutes ago, ramayah said:

There is a plastic line in the trunk clamped on to the same black rubber line attached on the sender. 

 

That is the one!  Disconnect the hose that is attached to it, snip an inch off of the plastic, reconnect that end of the hose.  Disconnect the same hose at the tank.  Slide the plastic sleeve you just made onto the nipple.  Put the hose on over that and tighten the clamp.

 

That same plastic line is what the fuel hose is connected to at the firewall.  (It runs the length of the car, through the interior, under the carpet on the passenger side).  You just cannot see it at the firewall because the hose is covering it.  There is not enough at that end to snip any off, but there's plenty in the trunk.

 

The hose that connects to that plastic line and then goes to your fuel filter looks pretty old.  I'd suggest buying enough 5/16" (or 8mm) fuel hose to replace all of it, but it's up to you.  You can also snip a bit off the ends and re-connect it, if it seems like it is still okay.

 

I don't have the return valve on my car and I don't really understand how they function.  It does involve vacuum though and the line connects to that skinny nipple.  That valve might be giving you trouble without the vacuum connection.  You could eliminate the valve and cap the return line at the tank, but I think the valve is useful, as long as you can get it working properly.  I am not the guy to type out those instructions.

 

When things come up that you don't recognize, try the search window.  I am not nagging, I am just pointing out that it is a powerful tool, since there are almost twenty years worth of posts archived.  People have been asking these very same questions for a long time.  You can hunt down and read up on the answers they received, while you wait for new answers to come in.

 

Tom

 

 

   

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Tom,

GREAT. I’ll snip off a piece of plastic and attached that end with the plastic to the sender. And attach the hose attached to the sender to the plastic I snip off and clamp both. 
Got the idea. I will reinstall the pump and try to start it. It was driving me ? nuts for a long time now. I pray that your advice is helpful and it works. This is  surely an education for me . 

I will keep you updated. Thanks 

Regards

Randy

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Please post photos of what you do in the trunk.

 

Make sure all the clamps/hoses are tight between the tank and pump.  Not just in the trunk.

 

They designed a "fuel system" with return lines and vent lines and return valves with vacuum lines... that all need to play well together.  Getting the hoses sorted is a step in the right direction.  Hopefully a big enough step to get you up and running, but my guess is you'll have more sorting to do.  It is an ongoing (learning) process, slowly improving these old cars.

 

Good luck.

Tom

   

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Tom,

Thanks. I did exactly as directed. I snipped off the plastic tube and inserted into the sender nipple. I tightened everything, trunk , pump and carb.. 

I tried to start it but it wouldn’t start. So I primed it and it started. I let it run to operating temperature and shut it off. I will give it some time and try it again. If it doesn’t start then I’ll try some of your other suggestions to see if the pump is no good.

As I said before, when I crank it , no gas  is coming out from the pump to the carburetor.

Thanks again to you and everyone who are so helpful.

Randy 

 

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31 minutes ago, Hans said:

Can that return valve not be removed? Never seen one of those before.

 

11 hours ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

You could eliminate the valve and cap the return line at the tank, but I think the valve is useful, as long as you can get it working properly.

 

The valve does not work without vacuum, so you could take it out of the equation and run a hose from the pump directly to the carburetor inlet and cap off the return line back at the tank.

 

Technically, the fuel filter is supposed to go after the mechanical pump.  Mine works fine with one between the pump and firewall, but you could try putting yours between the pump and carb and using a nice new piece of 5/16" fuel hose between the firewall and pump.  I'd suggest buying enough new fuel hose to replace all of it under the hood.   Get some new clamps that are made for that size hose, while you are at it.

 

27 minutes ago, ramayah said:

As I said before, when I crank it , no gas  is coming out from the pump to the carburetor.

 

How do you know this to be true?  Try the bottle trick (carefully).

 

 

Looking closely at the photo below, I see that your fuel pump is not centered over the bakelite spacer on the head.  That suggests you might be missing the little bakelite sleeves that fit into the pump's mounting holes.  I don't see their flanges under the nuts/washers either.  Those are important, because they center the pump over the pushrod that actuates it.

 

03 Insulating bushing   2     13310075752 $1.57

 

EB79295F-CA56-41EE-8058-8ACFD2EC35E3.jpe

 

 

Here is a link to the RealOem site.  Add this to your Bookmarks (save it) so you can refer to it when looking for part numbers. 

 

This search is set for a '76 (like mine), but it can be customized if you want to add your own vehicle's information.

 

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/partgrp?id=2215-USA---114-BMW-2002

 

Here is a link to the fuel preparation system, that shows the bushings I mentioned.  (#3)  (You need to add those).

 

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=2215-USA---114-BMW-2002&diagId=13_0679

 

 

Fuel supply/pump/filter 

Sponsored links

 

 

Tom

 

 

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