Excessive front positive camber

[TobyB]

Yeah, I guess my take on the fore- aft thing is that I've moved the wheel all over inside the fender opening

(hell, I've also moved the opening around, too, but don't tell the homologation committee)

 

and unless i changed the lower suspension arm length, the toe didn't change enough to do that kind of damage.

 

It may not be right (I agree, that's a very healthy bushing you've got protruding there) but it's not

wrong enough to cause today's problem.

 

As to the suspension jacking thing- IF the arms are already higher on the inside than on the outside,

then the inward force from toe- in will shove- well, in!  And since when shoved in, the arm can move

only one way (up) in response to that force, the suspension will jack up.  

So from the top, toed- in, the tires' angles generate the green forces, pushing inwards.

Now, looking at the car from the front, those green arrows are working on the yellow lower control

arms, trying to compress them.  Well, they're incompressible, but since they're at an angle, that force

works to also push them upwards, blue arrows, to some small percentage of the force generated by the slip angle of the tires.

A little trig would give the percentage, but as the angle will increase 'going forward', the force will also increase,

so the angle will increase, right up to the point where the car says 'enough' and reaches equalibrium... and the tires

start screaming for mercy.

 

At least, that's the way I see it going... upwards...

 

t

positive feedback looped

[ray_]

Equilibrium.

 

?

[cdn97986]

So I checked my front toe using some cut PVC pipe and 2 tape measures today.

 

Initial - Front of tire (driver)

Initial - Rear of tire (driver)

I was out over an inch, so massive toe in as many mentioned. When I checked the adjusters for the tie rods on each side, the driver side had several more threads showing than the passenger side both on the inner and outer ball joint, so I only adjusted the driver side one.

 

Adjusted - Front of tire (driver)

Adjusted - Rear of tire (driver)

When getting within a 1/16 of an inch by just adjusting the driver side tie rod, both sides now had approximately the same amount of threads showing on the ball joints. Did not get a chance to drive the car this evening, just ran out of time. Visually, the camber looks a little better, but will reserve judgement until after a drive. Will report back what I find tomorrow. Thanks again for all of the help. Craig

[jgerock]

So I’m betting your steering wheel position has changed (since you only changed one tie rod end).

[cdn97986]

Correct, the steering wheel is not centered now. I had adjusted it last fall because it was not straight (now I know why!), so when re-adjusting will probably wind up in the old spot I suspect. One thing I didn't mention before is that the two bolts to clamp / lock in the ball joints threads seemed a little loose on the driver side, but not so on the passenger side. Wondering if the PO didn't snug these up and its been slowly unscrewing? There were still plenty of threads left, but glad I caught / adjusted.

[TobyB]

WooHoo!

 

I think it might handle just a bit better now, too.

 

Let us know how the camber settles out- I'm curious to see if the toe was the only cause.

 

t

 

[Lorin]

On 6/9/2021 at 12:23 PM, TobyB said:

 

 

I'm looking at those pics again-

 

if the car wasn't moved between taking them, I was wrong- you have at least an INCH of toe- in.

 

t

toe-tied.

Toby, your eyecrometer is on point ! Did you just have it calibrated?

[cdn97986]

Good news after about a 75 mile ride yesterday. The low speed squealing is gone, and the car tracks much better than before. Will pull slightly to the right on certain road conditions, but almost nothing under others. Positive camber is much improved, to the point of almost an illusion as many had mentioned. So the combo of the positive camber and massive toe in is what I suspect ruined the outer edge of my old tires, Will continue to drive on my old 13's w/ 165 80's for the next few trips to see how tire wear is looking, and then switch back to the 14's w/ new tires if all is OK. Thanks again, looks like a "positive" outcome, and fix didn't require a trip to the alignment shop.

[Conserv]

Despite your generally favorable results, a trip to the local alignment shop wouldn’t be a terrible thing, even if it ends up (a.) simply confirming the “excess-toe-in-only” issue, or (b.) refining the adjustments you made….

 

Watching wear on badly-worn tires, for a few hundred miles, is often not going to reveal anything meaningful.

 

I’d recommend you, at bare minimum, have the alignment checked when you install your new tires.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[M3M3]

On 6/13/2021 at 9:51 AM, cdn97986 said:

Correct, the steering wheel is not centered now. I had adjusted it last fall because it was not straight (now I know why!), so when re-adjusting will probably wind up in the old spot I suspect. One thing I didn't mention before is that the two bolts to clamp / lock in the ball joints threads seemed a little loose on the driver side, but not so on the passenger side. Wondering if the PO didn't snug these up and its been slowly unscrewing? There were still plenty of threads left, but glad I caught / adjusted.

Do not just move the steering wheel.  Ensure the steering box is centered first.  Check the steering arm coming off the box, and double check by counting the turns of the steering wheel from lock to lock, then turning wheel half that from one lock.  Once steering box centered, THEN center the wheel.  THEN adjust the toe so the front wheels are aligned with the rear.

 

There is an order to this process.  Don't just fix the steering wheel.

 

 

[cdn97986]

Before setting the toe, I ensured the lever from the steering box was straight, which caused the steering wheel to be off. I corrected the wheel afterwards, and know I had adjusted it last fall, so suspecting why it was off. Will get an alignment at some point, just wanted to drive it a bit more on the old tires to see if anything shows up. I literally trashed my old tires in less than 500 miles! Thanks, Craig