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Hi all,

I have my Chile Verde project car pretty much torn down to tub, and have one hang up. (not to be confused with the other project car which isn't done yet but that's what men do)

I tried to remove the driver's side guides for the hood bar and could not loosen the two screws using penetrant, heat, impact screwdriver, drill bits and various extraction methods.  The car in a prior life had an engine fire, resulting in the bolts (I believe M6 being rusted and the plastic guides being brittle).  I ended up using a dremel to cutoff the plastic guides.  Passenger side came off easily.

The fasteners ended up breaking off, and now I have a broken drill bit in the forward one.  So I got nothing left to work with so on to Plan B.  Any ideas, and can I remove the retaining fastener /nuts  from underneath. It appears to be one piece housing both nuts, and sitting up there with a clip, as it sits a bit loosely so its not tacked in.  But its very hard to get to through the inner fender well or even see for that matter.  I didn't find a part # on Realoem. 

Thanks

Steve

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You could simply remove the broken off bolts and their threaded receivers by drilling, etc and replace both with cage nuts.  IIRC those bolts are 6mm, and you should be able to find 6mm cage nuts that can be inserted from the top.  They're adjustable so that the hood latch bar can also be adjusted, so that's what you're really going for.  Otherwise you could just weld nuts in the holes so they were flush with the surface.  But then you'd lose the adjustability of the latch bar, which is important.

 

mike

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Posted (edited)

What I’ve noted: On earlier hoods those fasteners are coarse ‘sheet metal / fender screws’ whereas later they are M6x1.0

(I could be imagining it, but the stub of the fastener appears to be the hardware from an early hood). -KB

@Conserv - nope, I haven’t note carefully what the cut-off date is!

 

EDIT: I looked again, was mistaken (at a quick glance I thought I was looking at the hardware for the hood brace). Good job @Steve Tochi .

Edited by kbmb02
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36 minutes ago, kbmb02 said:

On earlier hoods those fasteners are coarse ‘sheet metal / fender screws’ whereas later they are M6x1.0

Now you have me curious...I've never had to completely remove a hood lock bar, so can't attest to the screw variety, but I do know they're both big Phillips screws.  But regardless, they screw into movable bases to allow for adjustment.  If Steve could somehow extract the broken drill bit he could simply drill out the remains of those screws and use big Phillips sheet metal screws.  But the trick is gonna be getting that hardened steel bit to relinquish its grip on the old screw.  There just might be enough poking up to grip with vise grips after tickling it using an acetylene torch with a 201 (very fine) tip.

 

mike

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Posted (edited)

I've had better luck using a small pipe wrench on broken bolts than vice grips the jaws on a pipe wrench close down as you pull on it. As stated controlled heat and oil are your friend. 

Edited by Son of Marty
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Thank you gentlemen, I'll give it another try tomorrow from the top with another drill bit on the front one, and pipe wrench on the rear.  I had the rear one moving a few turns with vice grips until it snapped.  The bolts are M6, so they are narrower than they appear.  I just wonder how the factory installed the nut retainer, I can get barely get my hands on it by reaching through the fuse box opening.

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7 hours ago, Steve Tochi said:

I just wonder how the factory installed the nut retainer, I can get barely get my hands on it by reaching through the fuse box opening.

 

Can you get a mirror through that opening and shine a flashlight at it, to possibly get a peek at the underside?  Then, with your third hand snap a photo to show us??

 

I'd try tapping that drill bit counter clockwise with the tip of a tiny punch, to free it up.  Try both directions, back and forth. 

 

Pipe wrenches do get a good grip on stuff, but seem a bit clumsy for this application.  I do have this tiny one though.  Let me know if you want me to send it your way!

 

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Tom

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Here's a pic from what lies beneath, I stuck my I-phone up through the fuse box and took blind shots until I got a decent pic.  It appears the one piece "butterfly shaped" bracket held up by a retainer that is tacked in, which allows it to be somewhat loose for adjustment.  Must have been installed as part of the inner fender assembly process.   

Tom, I may you take up on that mini pipe wrench, I have about 3mm exposed to get something to bite on that one bolt.  I may try squaring off the exposed bolt for a better bite.

 

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Those are great photos.  Unfortunately, my little tiny wrench was from a keychain and the brand name is CHINA, so I don't think it is up for the task.  I was kinda being funny.

 

It'd be nice if you could get the underside of those little screws wet with PB-blaster, or some such oil.  I've used tiny weedeater fuel line to extend the spritzer straw and shot oil into hard to reach places.  Another trick is to heat up the straw with a lighter or something and then quickly bend it to shape.  

 

I've had good luck setting a nut over broken bolts and TIG welding them together.  The intense heat helps loosen things too.   Sometimes the nut twists off, but it's easy to try again, as long as there's still a stub.

 

It's too bad you can't grab them from the underside and twist them down through.  You need some custom 90 degree bent needle-nose pliers to reach down under there and spin them through the 0val hOle.  

 

I do love little battery powered impact guns.  Tapping them forward and back while pushing down hard can wiggle-tap them free.

 

Shocking (impact) stuck fasteners really helps loosen them, but in this case they're mounted to that wiggly piece, so it's harder to give that sort of force. 

 

Tom

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Thanks Tom, I was thinking what kind of cheater bar I would need for your micro pipe wrench.   I did spray some blaster up there and will give it another try.  Maybe a special tool could reach those threads but difficult to turn even with help from a contortionist from Cirque du Soleil. 

There just isn't much surface area on a sheared off M6 bolt for extraction bits.  Maybe I'll have to do an aggressive drill out and take a chance of ruining the threads.  But upon reassembly, I could use a longer M6 bolt, and get a nut and lock washer up underneath there and retain the adjustment qualities of the butterfly bracket.  Guess I'm lucky this is driver side, not passenger side. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Steve Tochi said:

Maybe I'll have to do an aggressive drill out and take a chance of ruining the threads.  But upon reassembly, I could use a longer M6 bolt,

If you booger up the 6mm threads, just get a 7mm tap and re-tap the hole for 7mm, and use the appropriate screw.  IIRC 7mm threads are also 1mm pitch, just a bit larger.  Your big problem, though is getting that broken drill bit out.   Migging or Tigging it to a nut or bolt might be your best chance...

 

mike

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   I've had good results using the "Turbo Socket" style of easyout on minimally protruding pieces. They come in 1/4" drive and metric sizes and enough sizes in between to get a bite on rounded/chewed up bolts/studs. If using heat/PB beforehand, trying from the bottom might yield results. Be careful though, you might twist the whole assembly right off the body if it won't loosen easily. Ultimately, you could Dremel off the exposed pieces an then drill out with a quality and sharp drill bit. 

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Posted (edited)

If you have to drill, here's a idea a friend of mine from the Alfa club around here took one of there contraptions and epoxied 4 1" round super magnets to the bottom and made his own car sized mag drill, it works well if you can slide it off  when your done other wise it takes 2 men and a small boy to pry it off. I should add under 40 bucks for the frame on Amazon.

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Edited by Son of Marty
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Well after an all day wrestling match, got her done...sort of.  I was able to get broken drill bit extracted rather easily, and drilled out the remaining nut remnants.  The rear bolt ended up being a challenge, I broke a drill bit into that one as well, and it was deep and buried.  Drilling with my M18 driver didn't work, not enough speed, but a dremel made quick work of it.  Both holes ended up being to beat up to tap for a M6, but it appears there's enough there underneath sticking out to get a nut on it or I could go up to a 40mm.   What I learned today:

  • Persistence and thought needed when problem solving.
  • You can never have enough specialty tools. 
  • Snap on tools are better than harbor freight.
  • Extractors in concept should work, but I've never really had them work that well.
  • Every now and again, I will remove and chase those nuts and bolts. 
  • That area underneath the fuse box is a good place to store contraband.
  • Jon Rahm should have gotten the vaccine earlier, cost him $1.6MM.

Thanks for everyone's input and advice. 

"I feel I accomplished something. A good job. I feel proud of myself, man" (name that movie)

Steve

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