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I bought a Getrag 245 from a fellow who said he and his friends had bought it for their race car, and used it only once or twice before figuring out they’d never get into 5th gear with it.  In other words, worked when they sold it to me.  It came with a shortened driveshaft complete with new giubo, a slave and lengthened flexible brake line.  I opted for the Blunt shift kit, Sachs clutch and the 323i throwout bearing.  It being an unknown box we went through it pretty thoroughly and put it back together.  Looks nice inside, all synchros measure out almost like enw and all rods straight, gears nice.  

 

But the devil’s in the details, and now that I’m installing it I have gotten into a little bit of a funhoue.  First I could not get the whole thing shoved into place.  Some chiseling of a burr on the clutch kit and chamfering the end of the input shaft splines and that was solved.  Then, to test fit the driveshaft (again, this is all second hand stuff I have never installed) I hoisted it onto the output shaft, bolted up the center support loosely and hand-bolted the guibo to the driveshaft.  A pretty fine fit, maybe a little more gap between driveshaft flange and trans output flange than I expected (l/8” maybe), but the diff is installed all the way back and I was thinking it’s a gap I can easily close.  

 

Then I realized that I couldn’t turn the driveshaft because the giubo was making contact with the shift selector rod.  I measured the giubo diameter — it was 107mm at the widest point, a mm larger than it should be.  I ordered a fresh one from Blunt.  I also noted that the threaded tips of the 50mm bolts that connect the giubo to the trans output flange were rubbing against the heads of the bolts that protrude from the output flange seal cover.  

 

Just to see what effect it would have, I reinstalled the bolts with washers under the heads, which gave me just enough room that the giubo-to-flange bolts didn’t click on the output shaft cover bolt heads.  At the same time, I smoothed off the outer edges of my existing giubo with a sander to bring the outer diameter to 106mm at the widest points.  When I reinstalled it with the washers it continued to rub against the shift selector rod, but less, and I discovered that the bit rubbing was the front of the guibo, against the collar where the shift selector exits the trans case.  

 

In a moment of clarity, I measured my old 4-speed to see what the distance is between the front of the trans output shaft flange and the trans output shaft cover bolts (the ones that on the 245 had been nicking the 50mm bolts initially).  It was 18mm, give or take a hair.  Back to the 245 and measure... lo!  Maybe 12 mm?  Six millimeters is a lot of real estate in this neighborhood, as many of you know.  

 

I am not sure the best question with which to open the bidding.  I don’t imagine we could have installed the flange too deep when putting the trans back together. I think it’s a positive stop.  But we need to buy back at least a couple of mm.  How (there’s a good starting question!)?  Are there shims for this that we could put on before the flange?  Are there 3 bolt flanges of different depths?  I can’t wait to solve this problem only to find that the driveshaft is too long!

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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11 minutes ago, 0257 said:

I bought a Getrag 245 from a fellow who said he and his friends had bought it for their race car, and used it only once or twice before figuring out they’d never get into 5th gear with it.  In other words, worked when they sold it to me.  It came with a shortened driveshaft complete with new giubo, a slave and lengthened flexible brake line.  I opted for the Blunt shift kit, Sachs clutch and the 323i throwout bearing.  It being an unknown box we went through it pretty thoroughly and put it back together.  Looks nice inside, all synchros measure out almost like enw and all rods straight, gears nice.  

 

But the devil’s in the details, and now that I’m installing it I have gotten into a little bit of a funhoue.  First I could not get the whole thing shoved into place.  Some chiseling of a burr on the clutch kit and chamfering the end of the input shaft splines and that was solved.  Then, to test fit the driveshaft (again, this is all second hand stuff I have never installed) I hoisted it onto the output shaft, bolted up the center support loosely and hand-bolted the guibo to the driveshaft.  A pretty fine fit, maybe a little more gap between driveshaft flange and trans output flange than I expected (l/8” maybe), but the diff is installed all the way back and I was thinking it’s a gap I can easily close.  

 

Then I realized that I couldn’t turn the driveshaft because the giubo was making contact with the shift selector rod.  I measured the giubo diameter — it was 107mm at the widest point, a mm larger than it should be.  I ordered a fresh one from Blunt.  I also noted that the threaded tips of the 50mm bolts that connect the giubo to the trans output flange were rubbing against the heads of the bolts that protrude from the output flange seal cover.  

 

Just to see what effect it would have, I reinstalled the bolts with washers under the heads, which gave me just enough room that the giubo-to-flange bolts didn’t click on the output shaft cover bolt heads.  At the same time, I smoothed off the outer edges of my existing giubo with a sander to bring the outer diameter to 106mm at the widest points.  When I reinstalled it with the washers it continued to rub against the shift selector rod, but less, and I discovered that the bit rubbing was the front of the guibo, against the collar where the shift selector exits the trans case.  

 

In a moment of clarity, I measured my old 4-speed to see what the distance is between the front of the trans output shaft flange and the trans output shaft cover bolts (the ones that on the 245 had been nicking the 50mm bolts initially).  It was 18mm, give or take a hair.  Back to the 245 and measure... lo!  Maybe 12 mm?  Six millimeters is a lot of real estate in this neighborhood, as many of you know.  

 

I am not sure the best question with which to open the bidding.  I don’t imagine we could have installed the flange too deep when putting the trans back together. I think it’s a positive stop.  But we need to buy back at least a couple of mm.  How (there’s a good starting question!)?  Are there shims for this that we could put on before the flange?  Are there 3 bolt flanges of different depths?  I can’t wait to solve this problem only to find that the driveshaft is too long!

 

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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Just now, 0257 said:

 

Just got the output shaft flange off.  Here it is, all of 15mm deep, a lot shallower than my 4 bolt.7850A640-C3E4-4B66-BE0D-4EB19EDEB178.jpeg

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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1 hour ago, 0257 said:

In a moment of clarity

For you perhaps but I need pictures?

Nothing to be gained by comparing output flanges from different models of trannies, since they are completely different assemblies. No reason for the output flanges to have the same dimensions.

i would like to see a pic of the bolts you are using... 

76 2002 Survivor

71 2002 Franzi

85 318i  Doris

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I wonder if they left the speedo drive gear off the shaft, the only reason I say that is if I recall corectly, it about 6mm wide, how many threads were showing on the shaft when it was togeather? There should be only 2 or 3 if I recall.

 

 

PS this is just a wild ass guess!

Edited by Son of Marty

If everybody in the room is thinking the same thing, then someone is not thinking.

 

George S Patton 

Planning the Normandy Break out 1944

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5 minutes ago, Son of Marty said:

I wonder if they left the speedo drive gear off the shaft, the only reason I say that is if I recall corectly, it about 6mm wide, how many threads were showing on the shaft when it was togeather? There should be only 2 or 3 if I recall.

 

 

PS this is just a wild ass guess!

Good one, but the speedo drive gear is in, and as the attached photo reflects the nut just barely clears the threads...CE56F719-865A-4271-9483-125EF50FC4B7.jpeg

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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17 minutes ago, tech71 said:

For you perhaps but I need pictures?

Nothing to be gained by comparing output flanges from different models of trannies, since they are completely different assemblies. No reason for the output flanges to have the same dimensions.

i would like to see a pic of the bolts you are using... 

50mm factory bolts. Again, the issue appears to be the distance between the front of the trans output flange (where it meets the driveshaft) and the back of the transmission.  Not enough distance with this flange to fit the factory 50mm bolts and nuts, and even if I space those with a washer I get front outside edge of giubo rubbing against shift selector surround where it meets transmission case.  Seems I need a flange with a longer collar. Or, uh, something.  Keep the ideas coming! 

E25264C3-06A5-4FB1-98DE-AD431D8EAC7C.jpeg

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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34 minutes ago, 0257 said:

Keep the ideas coming! 

OK, you mention some difficulties getting the trans stabbed in.

Are you absolutely certain that it is fully and evenly seated? 

Did you change the pilot bearing? a pilot bearing not seated deeply enough might compress the entire mainshaft assembly and force it aft a little..... Hey, its an idea!

Is that really a pair of vise grips marring up the weakest and most highly stressed area of your output flange??

Edited by tech71

76 2002 Survivor

71 2002 Franzi

85 318i  Doris

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1 minute ago, tech71 said:

OK, you mention some difficulties getting the trans stabbed in.

Are you absolutely certain that it is fully and evenly seated? 

After the “plastic surgery” on the clutch and the input shaft spline front edges the trans mated to the block just like it should.  It’s snug now.  Not sure that should affect the output shaft flange distance from back of trans case, as all those parts travel together.

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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Are 50 mm bolts, the bolt length for the 4 bolt flange or the 3 bolt flange.  The 8 bolt guibo is thicker than the 6 bolt guibo.

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A radiator shop is a good place to take a leak.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing but I know I'm really good at it.

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30 minutes ago, jimk said:

Are 50 mm bolts, the bolt length for the 4 bolt flange or the 3 bolt flange.  The 8 bolt guibo is thicker than the 6 bolt guibo.

50 mm bolts are for the 3 bolt flange. 61 mm bolts are for the 4 bolt flange.  

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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1 minute ago, ray_ said:

That flange looks odd to me...

Well, you should hear what people are saying about you.

 

How?

  • Haha 1

‘74 Fjord 2002tii (Zouave)

’80 Alpenweiss 528i (Evelyn)

’05 R53 Chili Red Mini S

‘56 Savage Model 99 in .250-3000

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9 minutes ago, 0257 said:

Well, you should hear what people are saying about you.

 

How?

In an odd way.

 

?

 

I'll have a comparison in a few days. Maybe.

Ray

Stop reading this! Don't you have anything better to do?? :P
Two running things. Two broken things.

 

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