my Golde

[ScottA]

Sure would like to close the big square hole in my roof - which makes car washing mighty difficult.

Here are the parts:

 

 

 

The the parts placed diagonally are (I believe) extras from another sunroof of a different model.

My first 02 was an Agave '75 which had that other Golde, the one that accepts the nifty wind deflector.

 

The one above will return from whence it came, my '73 automatic, 2534083.

I don't see much info online about it, maybe more common on Volvos and VWs?

The cables appear to run fully encased and so I probably should stop searching for the other phenolic anti-chafe strips.

The one shown may have come extra with this car, or I snagged it after my Agave was totaled - probably the former.

 

Parts I haven't yet located are the flimsy aluminum headliner frame and domelight card - hopefully they're tucked in the garage loft or not far away.

I'm just a little intimidated by this task, which has priority right up there with laying in the wiring loom.

Oh yeah - I took this out 17 years ago.

Time to start cleaning these parts. 

[jgerock]

Hate to tell you but that assembly doesn’t appear to be from a 1600 or 2002.  Maybe it’s from a NK?

[jgerock]

The diagonally placed aluminum pieces DO look like the correct rear tracks for a 1600/2002.

[ScottA]

12 minutes ago, jgerock said:

Hate to tell you but that assembly doesn’t appear to be from a 1600 or 2002.  Maybe it’s from a NK?

You're right and I agree regarding appearance, yet this cars' roof is designed for this style Golde.

I'm guessing BMW put this variety in a few 02s, not just mine. I don't know enough about the factory procedure for sunroof installations.

This variety is also found on Porches and no doubt others.

[colorobo2002]

30 minutes ago, jgerock said:

Hate to tell you but that assembly doesn’t appear to be from a 1600 or 2002.  Maybe it’s from a NK?

And the "extra" parts are from a 2002. Maybe this is some retrofit?

[ScottA]

8 minutes ago, colorobo2002 said:

And the "extra" parts are from a 2002. Maybe this is some retrofit?

anything is possible, though the installation looks original.

I'll post pics of the roof details and parts fitment tomorrow.

[Son of Marty]

There is also a company I believe was call Wabsco or some thing along those likes, that made sunroofs that could be retro fitted to the 02, most of them had a fabric slide but some of them had a hard panel and they were a bit larger than the factory Golde. Don't know if your is one of them I'm just say'n.

[ScottA]

Webasto, IIRC. 

Reason I'm posting here is, prior to this example I've never seen but one version of a Golde sunroof on our bimmers (not this one).

Certainly Golde made other versions - each cast guide on my model here is marked Golde and shows a part number similar to BMW's numbering system.

 

I wonder how BMW handled sunroof installations from a manufacturing perspective.

I work in aircraft manufacturing, on the production floor - revisions happen regularly.

[2002iii]

You might want to look here, it looks like you have an aftermarket installed golde sunroof or a transplant from a Porsche or Mercedes Benz.

 

Also this may help explain why, taken from another post from Conserv: With the exception of a tiny number of European-delivery cars, or a personal connection to Hoffman Motors (especially to Max Hoffman), you could not "order" U.S.-spec cars.  Rather, Hoffman Motors ordered them for you, and you chose from the cars Hoffman had ordered.  If your dealer did not have the car you dreamed of, he might be willing to make a few calls to see if another dealer had your dream car.  But mostly, if you wanted a specific color, equipment (mostly, sunroof), or model (e.g., tii or Automatic), you had to make compromises. I'd wager the original purchaser of your car really wanted both a specific color (is it originally a Fjord metallic car?) AND a sunroof. He/she purchased a non-sunroof car and the dealer, or the buyer him/herself, got in touch with a professional sunroof installer. And your car, in it's present configuration, was created.  The Webasto installation strikes me as workman-like, but not nearly as polished as a typical factory Golde installation.

Edited February 23, 2021 by 2002iii

[Mike Self]

2 hours ago, ScottA said:

Reason I'm posting here is, prior to this example I've never seen but one version of a Golde sunroof on our bimmers (not this one)

+1.  All the factory sunroof-equipped 1600s and 2002s I've seen, both Euro and US models, used the same sunroof--most were manual but a few electric ones escaped Hoffman's scrutiny and made it to the US; most were Euro delivery to military/diplomatic personnel, and not bought through Hoffman and his dealers.

 

There was an aftermarket Golde sunroof that could be installed on a 2002; I've seen a few US cars so equipped.  At first glance they look identical to the factory version, but there are a few subtle differences, one being the aluminum trim pieces along the front edge of the opening.  On factory sunroofs, the three trim pieces go straight across and are about as wide as the aluminum side pieces.  All the aftermarket Golde installations use narrower front trim pieces, and have a bump in the center one to accommodate the crank handle.  It's difficult to tell from your pictures, but the three front edge trim pieces look like the aftermarket Golde package.  Also the factory sunroof panel has four"indents on the underside of the leading edge (yours doesn't).  They're to hold some small plastic anti-rattle pieces for the accessory pop-up wind deflector.  A sure way to tell if your car's sunroof is factory or aftermarket Golde is to look under the headliner; the factory bracing is much neater and more professional looking, and the few aftermarket Golde installs I've seen still have the two non-sunroof courtesy lights, one over each door.  

 

Cheers

mike

 

PS--all the factory Golde sunroofs I've seen had provision for the pop-up wind deflectors (those little plastic filler pieces in the leading edge trim pieces)--but I've only seen 2 US cars with them installed.  The pieces from a contemporary Porsche 911 fit perfectly, BTW--where I snagged both of mine--many years ago from junkyard 911's.

[jgerock]

IIRC, Golde was the preferred supplier of sunroofs for BMW, Porsche, VW, Volvo, Mercedes Benz and some Ford Products like the Mercury Capri.

 

I didn’t know there was an aftermarket version for the BMW made by Golde.  Interesting @Mike Self

[Conserv]

10 hours ago, 2002iii said:

You might want to look here, it looks like you have an aftermarket installed golde sunroof or a transplant from a Porsche or Mercedes Benz.

 

Also this may help explain why, taken from another post from Conserv: With the exception of a tiny number of European-delivery cars, or a personal connection to Hoffman Motors (especially to Max Hoffman), you could not "order" U.S.-spec cars.  Rather, Hoffman Motors ordered them for you, and you chose from the cars Hoffman had ordered.  If your dealer did not have the car you dreamed of, he might be willing to make a few calls to see if another dealer had your dream car.  But mostly, if you wanted a specific color, equipment (mostly, sunroof), or model (e.g., tii or Automatic), you had to make compromises. I'd wager the original purchaser of your car really wanted both a specific color (is it originally a Fjord metallic car?) AND a sunroof. He/she purchased a non-sunroof car and the dealer, or the buyer him/herself, got in touch with a professional sunroof installer. And your car, in it's present configuration, was created.  The Webasto installation strikes me as workman-like, but not nearly as polished as a typical factory Golde installation.

If I recall, this Webasto steel sliding roof — as distinguished from their canvas sliding roofs — was larger in both dimensions than the factory sunroof. It was a generic sunroof for aftermarket installation. I believe the Golde aftermarket version to which Mike (@Mike Self) refers — I’m hoping Mike will chime in — may share the dimensions of the factory sunroof.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

[ScottA]

Thanks guys for all the great information and help in understanding what I have here, including broader details.

 

 

apologies for the embarrassing amount of dust - good paint lies beneath.

 

 

 

A good job was done on the installation and it's held up well, though some bits would have done better with a bit of paint.

 

Drain tubes in each corner, which I'll be sure to check whether the routing conforms to best practice that I've read about in this forum.

 

 

I'll post updates as the project progresses. 

[Mike Self]

14 hours ago, Conserv said:

I believe the Golde aftermarket version to which Mike (@Mike Self) refers — I’m hoping Mike will chime in — may share the dimensions of the factory sunroof.

The aftermarket Golde sunroof panel was very close dimensionally to the factory version, but IIRC (and I've only seen 2-3 in 52 years) they weren't identical, and had more squared-off (i.e. smaller radius curves) corners.

 

From the pictures Scott posted immediately above, this is an aftermarket Golde sunroof installation.  The giveaway is the crank location, impinging slightly into the leading edge of the opening; on factory units that front section is straight across.  Also note the crank handle, while it says Golde, is completely different from the factory handle (2nd picture).  The Golde on factory (1st picture) handles is in a different font.   Note there's no center dome light as was fitted to factory sunroof cars; Scott's car has the two over-door lights fitted to non-sunroof cars (3rd picture) Finally, the two reinforcing brackets in the final picture are fastened in place with sheet metal bolts; on the factory roof they'd be welded in place, and there would be brackets (at least on the modell 71 and later cars) for the electric motor used for power sunroofs 4th picture).  

 

Someone wanted that sunroof very badly, as I'm sure the aftermarket installation was way more expensive than ordering the car with a sunroof.  When our cars were new, Golde had a US office in Detroit that dealt with US manufacturers who bought Golde parts for factory installations, as well as selling kits for aftermarket installations.  My '69 came with a Golde brochure listing Golde service centers worldwide.  There were only a few places in the US that were authorized to install Golde sunroofs, as it was complicated and required some precision cutting/welding, plus re-painting the entire roof.

 

cheers

mike

[ScottA]

recently worked on sorting this Golde aftermarket sunroof.

Searching revealed this cable actuated sunroof first appeared on the Porsche 356.

Options available in hand-crank and motor driven as shown below

 

 

Eventually, Volkswagen offered a similar version as an option, but key items such as the integral cable end linkage (item 37) are not interchangeable. 

 

My parts are in pretty good shape though the sliders and rails were fairly jammed with crud; cleaning was time well spent.  

This cast aluminum pot metal has migrated too far from correct, and I believe it may not survive any persuasion to reform.

 

right side at aft end of the extrusion:

 

 

notice the slider's nifty plastic insert

 

 

 

Otherwise everything cleaned-up pretty good and might almost work, yet I'm considering options for repair or to reproduce the cable end-links.

 

I was missing two of the barrel-nut jacks and a machinist friend turned replacements for me - the black one here at the top of the frame:

 

 

I sized the threads and provided the M10x1.0 tap - and am happy knowing each rotation of the jack adjusts the height by 1mm.

 

These corners needed fitting - they weren't nesting properly because the respective molds lacked accuracy so I used a file and Dremel to improve that. 

 

 

and then I installed the lot - 

 

 

 

- sunroof going-in two times that day and eventually removed again to install heli-coils needed to secure the cross-over cover

 

 

still need a headliner frame - nothing complete here, just showing progress

Edited March 26, 2021 by ScottA
clarification