Advice for a 68 1600

[2002iii]

4 hours ago, Nj1602 said:

Again thank you for all the info this helps me a lot! So i do have a sweaty 2.0l motor getting rebuilt right now so I guess the best option/cost affective would be use the 2.0l motor with a early 3.64 long neck diff? 

Your probably going to want the 2002 transmission, I don't think the old 1600 transmission will like the extra torque.

 

If you can find a 3.64 long neck, yes it would bolt right in.

 

Since you already have a motor, I would look for an E21 5 speed transmission, Lsd differential and 2002 rear subframe.

[Slavs]

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Edited August 10, 2021 by Slavs

[rcf925]

Slavs, I have 68 2002 diff out of my car, Were they all 3.64?   Only number I could find on it was  12C

[Guest bmw908]

2 hours ago, Slavs said:

Yes, if using the 2.0L motor with a 4 speed trans, you should use the 3.64 diff. Just remember, though, you will have to use a flywheel and clutch for the 2.0L. You could possibly retain your mechanical actuation for your new clutch, but I personally don't know how well it works with any of the 2.0L clutches. You may be able to get feedback from someone here on the FAQ who has tried this.

 

Also, I don't know how well your 1600 driveshaft will hold up to the increased torque from the 2.0L. I know it works, but my hunch is that you will be replacing the three flex disks on your 1600 driveshaft more often. And, those flex disks are something like $150 / piece these days. The driveshaft that will work best is the one used on the 1968 and very early 1969 2002 which has the 3.64 longneck diff. But, as I mentioned earlier, if you use the 2002 driveshaft, you may end up with clearance issues where the larger 2002 driveshaft guibo may interfere with the junction point between the fork from the 1600 trans to your shift linkage. Once the 2002 was introduced in 68 BMW made the shift fork on the trans slightly longer so that it doesn't interfere with the larger 2002 guibo. If you have the 1600 specific shift fork, you will need to replace your 4 speed unit with one designed to accommodate the larger guibo of the 2002 trans. 4 speed gearboxes are plenty and affordable. You may already have one one your car.

 

And last, you also have to replace your speedometer with one set up for the 3.64 diff. If you left your 1600 speedometer in place with a 3.64 diff it would read too low. And the other way around; if you installed a 2002 speedometer, meant to be used with the 3.64 diff, on to your 1600 with a 4.11 diff, it would read too optimistic. You mentioned earlier that your speedometer is only reading about 60mph at 4,500 rpm. It may be reading too low because someone may have installed a 2002 speedometer. At 4500rpm you should be moving at about 75mph with your 4 speed and 4.11 diff. 

 

Slavs so what if i were to use a long neck 3.90 diff like you said before with the 2.0l motor, 2002 4 speed trans, and early 2002 drive shaft? I have some of these parts already and not trying to spend $$$$ on converting the pedal box, break lines, and hydraulic clutch.  

[Schnellvintage]

Your mechanical clutch will work just fine.   The 3.64 diff would work well with the 2.0L.  Finding a 3.90 diff would be very difficult.

 

 

[Slavs]

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Edited August 10, 2021 by Slavs

[Rodolfo Lasparri]

+1 with @2002iii @AceAndrew

 

My '69 2002 was fortunate enough to come with a running numbers matching block, I use running generously. At the end of the day though, my 69 was going to be the fun 02 in my garage that my daughter and I will enjoy. So I'm swapping in my backup Tii motor, updated in-tank fuel pump/sender, fuel line, Tii Booster/Master, and other swap items.

 

Why? My daughter and I thought it would be fun. We're also updating seats, suspension, and numerous other parts. So if adding flares or a megasquirt or whatever makes you happy - I say do it  Nobody should have any issue with what your doing, your not defacing a pristine numbers matching car, so enjoy!

 

[Slavs]

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[Guest bmw908]

On 2/19/2021 at 2:28 AM, Slavs said:

To flare or not to flare is a matter of personal preference. I personally don't believe it to be a good practice unless you have some serious rust issues in the area. During the late 70s and early eighties a lot of Porsche 356, 912 1nd 911 owners cut up their cars in favor of body kits and flares. Those cars are nearly worthless in comparison to the clean survivors. To each his own on this one.

 

If you're on a budget, just drop in the 2.0L and never mind about the driveshaft and diff for now. It's not ideal though/ But you can change the other components as time and money permit. I highly recommend that 3.64 long neck when you come across one. The mechanical clutch is adjustable, and I'm sure you can get it to work with any of the 2002 clutches.

the long neck 3.64 is the plan but i want to start planning for the future. SO when converting to a 02 rear subframe I am going to need the short neck diff 3.64, the subframe, axels, hubs, and breaks... Can I use the control arms off the 1600? am i missing anythign else? I know i need the 2002 drive shaft, trans, and motor lets just talk subframe components! 

[gary32]

Like a big go cart add body of your choice (1600) No flares no depreciation. The entire floor structure on Tesla's are battery/power storage.

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by gary32

[Slavs]

On 2/25/2021 at 6:11 PM, Nj1602 said:

the long neck 3.64 is the plan but i want to start planning for the future. SO when converting to a 02 rear subframe I am going to need the short neck diff 3.64, the subframe, axels, hubs, and breaks... Can I use the control arms off the 1600? am i missing anythign else? I know i need the 2002 drive shaft, trans, and motor lets just talk subframe components! 

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Edited August 10, 2021 by Slavs

[joebarthlow]

how about we just trade cars. I don't mind a 1600.

Edited February 27, 2021 by joebarthlow

[Guest bmw908]

On 2/25/2021 at 11:32 PM, Slavs said:

The control arms are all the same, but the control arm bushings differ.  The control arm mounting ears on the short neck subframes are spaced further apart in comparison the long neck subframes. Since the factory used the same control arms they made up the difference by installing wider control arm bushings which protrude further out from the control arms. These wider bushings are the more common rubber bushings. The earlier bushings are also rubber, but metal sleved. They are also narrower and almost flush with control arm housing when installed. They protrude perhaps less than 1/8” while the newer wider style bushings protrude about ¼”. 

 

If you choose  to use your existing 1968 1600 control arms with the newer shortneck  subframe, you will need to remove your existing metal sleeved bushings and install the newer and wider rubber bushings.  But. removing the old metal sleeved  bushings is a challenge. And, if you take them to the shop,  they  should be careful not to bend the control arm in the process.

 

The drum brakes on the 1600 are smaller in comparison to the 2002. So, if you are planning on running the 2 liter motor, you should use the bigger drums.  If you want to retain your existing control arms, you can install the larger drums, but this requires installing the larger backing plates for the drums.  I forgot if you have to loosen the castellated nut on the rear bearings to perform this task. That nut is torqued down to over 200 ft/lbs.

 

Another  thing to consider is the rear sway bar. 1600s through 1968 were  not provided with mounting tabs for  a rear sway bar. These mounting tabs are located on both, the subframe and  control arms. They could be fabricated and welded in place. But, if you are going to swap to a short neck subframe, you might as well also swap to the control arms with the bigger brakes and mounting tabs for the rear sway bar. When doing this job, I recommend you install all new rubber control arm bushings.  The newer style control arm bushings are easier to remove and find.

 

i cant thank you enough for the information! You have helped me a lot! Im going to make this easy on myself and try to find a complete rear subframe set up off an 02. 

[Slavs]

On 2/27/2021 at 3:17 AM, Nj1602 said:

i cant thank you enough for the information! You have helped me a lot! Im going to make this easy on myself and try to find a complete rear subframe set up off an 02. 

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Edited August 10, 2021 by Slavs