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Turbo Rebuild/Blown gasket


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Hello Turbo brothers,

my car was not making enough power, it felt anemic. The turbo charger was supposedly rebuilt before I got this project, but I decided that it was best to take it off and examine it. Also I was dubious, other claims the prior owner made about the car were hyperbolic and less than gospel truth.🤨

Number one: Many, many thanks to Byron, for good advice as always. I took the entire exhaust manifold off and jacked up the right side of the motor which worked very well. There was no way I could've unbolted the turbo it was too covered up. It was a good little workout, it took me longer than I expected to get the turbo off. I look at it is good hands-on therapy! It turns out loosening up the right side motor mount is pretty easy due to the bottom attachments. I highly recommend this for anyone removing their turbo, just take it off with the exhaust manifold in one piece . The thought of having to do this again makes a very strong case for all new copper nuts and anti-seize on all appropriate exhaust manifold and turbo bolts!

Number two: it turns out that the turbo the exhaust manifold gasket had blown out on the sides. Is there a better gasket that is recommended, or a way to beef up a stock gasket?

See picture!

Number three: since the Turbo is off I am going to send it to comp turbo and just have it completely rebuilt. Everything else in the car has been redone and is new or rebuilt so this will remove the turbo from any problem list for lack of significant performance.

I am kind of excited at the thought of the car making an honest 170 /180 hp. My normally aspirated cars running this range are  so much fun to drive. I realize there will be a lot of turbo lag but when the power really comes on it should be so very nice. I am kind of spoiled by my 930 Porsche and prior Audi turbos that run so very well. It makes me realize how nice Jack F's car must've been with a very modern Garrett turbo and all the details worked out.

 

Please if someone has a recommendation for the gasket, and easy place to get the copper exhaust manifold and turbo nuts let us know. Best regards, Peter

 

Unfortunately I can't get the gasket photos to load, modern technology is great when it works but such a pain in the gluteus musculature when it doesn't. Essentially the gasket has blown out right in the middle at the lateral aspect of the Seal where it is finished and weakest, and blew a little bit of oily exhaust onto the passenger side inner engine compartment.  

I finally managed to get the photos to download, unfortunately they are heik files. Apple had to dick around with the iPhone program. Before the photos were perfectly usable JPEG's. You can see the pictures if you download them.

Again many thanks for any help with gasket recommendations,

 

Sincerely Peter

 

AC2C65F6-DBB2-4B4C-9B46-1DA73D0F6533.heic EC7578D6-E8E6-4FF7-AA6B-5C766B351051.heic 889F3013-4D0D-4349-BCA2-1F288B9511F5.heic

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Peter,

if the blown gaskets are between the manifold and the head make sure the face of the manifold is perfectly flat (lay it on a piece of glass and check for gaps) the other possibility is they did not use the correct TURBO gaskets. They may have used standard gaskets and increased the diameter of the stud holes, I have seen this before. Your lack of boost might be just this leak. 
Byron

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Thanks for the response guys.

Byron the blown Turbo gasket is the one that fits between the manifold and the turbo. The exhaust manifold to cylinder head gaskets were OK fortunately. I will check the exhaust manifold as per your recommendation. I was  overjoyed to see that the exhaust manifold wasn't cracked.

Wkohler -thanks for the transformational website. I'm so annoyed that they change technology on the phones I'm tempted to get rid of all the Apple crap.

 

 

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There is no gasket between the turbo and manifold. Only newer cars use them. I have never had one, and if the flanges are truly flat, it shouldn't leak when hot and torqued properly.

 

As above, I think you have a tuning issue, even if you have blowby past the intake seals.

 

AFR at WOT?

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Thanks again guys, Anthony yes there is oil on the intake which is why I suspect the turbo. As they say a hound dog can have ticks and fleas, both a gasket and a tired turbo.

And spritz have tune the car with AFR in the optimal range 13/14 at wide open throttle, and it ran somewhat better before but still not as good as it should.

I will give an update after putting it all back together with a fresh turbo and a new gasket. Best regards, PeterI

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You are too lean at WOT. Should be 12.8 to 13 AFR, or 4.0% or richer @ no more than 4.5% CO.  will change depending on your fuel. The condition of your engine, distributor curve, will all effect the performance. The turbo proper is probably the last item I would look at, despite oil leakage unless it is fouling your plugs really bad.

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2 hours ago, Einspritz said:

You are too lean at WOT. Should be 12.8 to 13 AFR, or 4.0% or richer @ no more than 4.5% CO.  will change depending on your fuel. The condition of your engine, distributor curve, will all effect the performance. The turbo proper is probably the last item I would look at, despite oil leakage unless it is fouling your plugs really bad.

I agree,  with our engines with no intercooler or knock sensor (and by today's standard, totally archaic fuel and ignition systems) I don't go over 12.5-12.8 AFR at full boost.  It does not make more power and the exhaust temps go up dramatically which is a big reason we have Manifold and Turbo issues.  I have tried as low as 11.5 with virtually NO loss of power on the dyno.   

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3 hours ago, Preyupy said:

I agree,  with our engines with no intercooler or knock sensor (and by today's standard, totally archaic fuel and ignition systems) I don't go over 12.5-12.8 AFR at full boost.  It does not make more power and the exhaust temps go up dramatically which is a big reason we have Manifold and Turbo issues.  I have tried as low as 11.5 with virtually NO loss of power on the dyno.   


Do you use a wideband o2 sensor or do you

just monitor this during the tuning/dyno process?  Obviously I am so far away from worrying about this myself but its more curiosity currently.

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2 hours ago, wkohler said:


Do you use a wideband o2 sensor or do you

just monitor this during the tuning/dyno process?  Obviously I am so far away from worrying about this myself but its more curiosity currently.

I do all my tuning on either an engine or chassis dyno with AFR logging along with all of the other engine parameters. 

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