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Fletcher

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Right now, I'm kind of in fix-what-I-can-afford-to mode, but eventually I'd like to get out of that mode and start to make a long term plan.  

I don't think my 02 is a full restoration candidate.  Even if I had the skills and funds to pursue that, it seems like wrong car to start with.   More reasonable starting points than my 02 could be had if there were significantly more money to spend.  It's rusty and weathered and it seems like it would require a complete tear down and repair of many things to even begin that journey.

So I'm thinking Sleeper.  Other than getting to a point where the paint mostly matches, nothing is in imminent danger of falling off and the cockpit is mostly water tight here in the land of perpetual rain, I think all my effort should be focused on making it as fast & fun as possible.

I have a running stock M10 with the stock 4 spd transmission.  Everything seems to work / be serviceable.  There are no upgrades that I'm aware of.   (Though, I am supposed to receive a manifold & weber 38/38 from a friend in the nearish future and that could be my first upgrade.) 

Beyond that, I'm trying to figure out what I should do.  Both the engine and transmission were deem "tired" when I bought it.  Not sure how that's measured, but I don't doubt it's true. Most of the car seems that way. 

Keeping it fun (i.e. - not disassembling it to the point that I can't drive it the next day), I'm thinking maybe I should pursue a significant upgrade on the side.

Like:
1. Buy a 2nd M10 motor (if I can find one on the cheap that still turns) and rebuild it / figure out how to modify it for performance
2. Find 5spd transmission and have that rebuilt if necessary. (I've heard DIY rebuild of transmissions isn't a minor undertaking.  True?)
3. Find other drivetrain, braking, etc upgrades as I go along. 

Reasonable plan?  Alternate thoughts?  Ballpark guesstimates of costs I should expect going this route?  

Thanks all ?

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I guess my first question would be what kind of budget  are you prepared to throw at it. I can tell you thru experience it will take you at least a couple of years to do a complete restoration if all goes well,  likely longer if it does not. If you are going to find a project worthy it may take you that long just to acquire one. 

 

I would suggest you  first post some pics of your current car with attention to the bad spots, this will at least get you some honest feed back from the audience. Ya never know you might just have what ya need to start.

 

Lookin' forward to see what you have, btw you are in the heart of a very knowledgable and helpful community. a great group.

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First get it running, then I'd say get everything in good mechanical condition.
And building a proper engine (>140hp) will take a bit (LOT) more precision than what I've seen on your other posts (sorry to be that harsh).

Proper engine building needs tools precision experience and knowledge.  If you can only supply one or two you're better off having somebody who fulfills all four points build the engine.

 

Edited by uai
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Prioritize making what you have as safe then fix the rust. Worry about the other stuff when all that is done. Agree on Driver Schools & even Autocross will help you learn how the BMW performs. Don't buy cheap tires like Kumho Solus TA11 or some other cheap crappy tires. Spend the money on Pirelli CN36 or Vredesteins or Michelins on what ever wheels you have.

 

5-speeds are great if you can find a good one for under $1200. Rebuilding the Getrag 245 requires special tools & can & may double the price of the transmission depending on what it needs. So budget $2400 for that. If you are mechanically included you can buy a shortened drive shaft & install it yourself. If a shop does it, plan on another $1200-$3000 depending on the shop rate.

 

Stock brakes on a 2002 are very good when everything is working properly. Waste of money "upgrading" something for most of the driving situations you'll encounter.

 

Have compression & leak down tests on your engine, that will asses its health.

 

Remember, you have to crawl before you are able to walk & walk before you run. Proper driving takes time & practice. It's not how fast you go rather how you go fast. The driver makes the car better, the car does not make the driver better. 

 

 

 

 

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Andrew Wilson
Vern- 1973 2002tii, https://www.bmw2002faq.com/blogs/blog/304-andrew-wilsons-vern-restoration/ 
Veronika- 1968 1600 Cabriolet, Athena- 1973 3.0 CSi,  Rodney- 1988 M5, The M3- 1997 M3,

The Unicorn- 2007 X3, Julia- 2007 Z4 Coupe, Ophelia- 2014 X3, Herman- 1914 KisselKar 4-40

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Here’s the car.  I’m in the middle of replacing both front fenders and the hood.  It starts, runs and drives. It was driven here (Federal Way, WA) from Sonoma, CA two months ago.   Prior to that it was a daily driver up until 2019 when it was taken offline: engine, 5spd trans (since repurposed) & driveshaft removed and stored indoors while the car was stored outdoors under tarps.   When I bought it, I did so from family friend Bill Watson at Road Rockets BMW shop at Sonoma Raceway.  He had serviced the car for a dozen years prior to its disassembly and storage.  (I have those service records if details of what’s been done aids this conversation). Bill put it back together from its stored parts with a stock 4spd donor trans, new radiator and battery then delivered it to me.  Other than replacing the ignition coil - his suggestion after driving it ~700 miles - no mechanical changes have been made since. (Bill is also the aforementioned friend who may soon provide manifold and Weber 38/38 as his suggested “fun” upgrade)

 

if there are specific areas that it would be useful to take pictures of, I’m happy to do so.  Let me know. 
 

Thanks everyone!

 

p.s. - I’ll own my lack of precision easily.  I am - as my tagline alludes - more squiggle than square.  At the same time though I’m no spring chicken, an east coast kid living in the West, Father, Grandfather, former Navy dude — all a roundabout way of saying: no need to pull punches here. I’d rather have it straight, doc.  I can take it.  Harsh or not.  It’s all valuable and I appreciate it. Thanks! ???

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Edited by Fletcher
Typo editing the typo
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14 hours ago, joysterm said:

my first question would be what kind of budget  are you prepared to throw at it.


Probably max is about ~400 a month with periodic (bonus driven) splurges up to twice that.  So maybe $4-to-5.5K a year (piecemeal).   

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4 hours ago, uai said:

If you can only supply one or two you're better off having somebody who fulfills all four points build the engine.


One of my sons is a trained mechanic and late model bmw & racing (drift) enthusiast.   Between him, remote mentorship from Bill, the local PNW club and, of course, the FAQ..  and continuing to buy tools..  I think 3 of 4 are covered..   with precision being the odd man out.  In regard to that, I do assume I would need to call on a machine shop for resurfacing, boring, etc.   Is that any closer to the threshold?  

Edited by Fletcher
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3 hours ago, Fletcher said:

 no need to pull punches here. I’d rather have it straight, doc.  I can take it.  Harsh or not.  It’s all valuable and I appreciate it. Thanks!

OK..

Stop worrying so much about future course of action with this car, you are sucking any fun for yourself right out of the atmosphere.

You seem to have some solid ideas where you want to go with the car already so why do you need so much validation from us? Don't look for consensus here, unlikely there will be any.

Your car, your choice however, I remember you did not yet have a title for this car, is that still correct?

If so, STOP pouring $$$ into it until you have clear ownership! As in an actual legit title in hand.
Without a clean title its nothing more than a possible artificial reef, no matter how much $$ you sink into it.

Put some bumpers on it, any bumpers. Bobbed, bumper less 02s look like a squashed twinkie on wheels

Take a breather dude, before you burn yourself out on the car. ?

Edited by tech71
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76 2002 Survivor

71 2002 Franzi

85 318i  Doris

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37 minutes ago, tech71 said:

I remember you did not yet have a title for this car, is that still correct?


Yep.  Sort of.  Bill got the lost Title stuff completed in CA and is Fedexing me that and the transfer paperwork this week.  I ordered a vintage plate from The Old License farm and have received it.  So almost there. 

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Wait... what is he sending you? Paperwork? Not a title?  Most DMVs are paralyzed by Covid.

At best, a title is months away. Hope it works out and the fancy plate you ordered for more $$ ends up as more than wall art.

Seriously, have you considered re evaluating your priorities?

Done being candid "as requested" now.   Good luck.

76 2002 Survivor

71 2002 Franzi

85 318i  Doris

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2 hours ago, tech71 said:

Seriously, have you considered re evaluating your priorities?

Nope.  The priorities are solid:

  1. Don't think about politics, pandemics, social unrest and the rest of the stuff that usually gives me a headache.
  2. Achieve #1 by escaping to the garage at every opportunity to:
    • Listen to good tunes
    • Drink good beer
    • Work on the 02
    • Participate in the FAQ and learn stuff


Seriously: Work was started to recover the title months ago.  Most recent word I got was "the title has been recovered and related title transfer form made ready, I will send these to you via Fedex". 

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10 hours ago, Fletcher said:


Probably max is about ~400 a month with periodic (bonus driven) splurges up to twice that.  So maybe $4-to-5.5K a year (piecemeal).   

It looks by the responses you have received some solid recommendations and your budget would seem to support that. I do agree with  @adawil2002, make sure its safe, take care of the mechanical issues and leave the cosmetic improvements when its appropriate to do so. Also I would reach out to the PNW club, their page is listed here. You will be able to lean on them for some help or recommendations on local resources. Also take a drive to West Seattle and drop into Midnight Motorosposrt ....you will be glad you did.

 

Good luck with your project.

 

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