1973 2002tii Ceylon project

[magnus]

Price: $9000

Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Description:

VIN: 2762669
Mileage: unknown
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Price: $9000 obo

Photos: https://flic.kr/s/aHskG6yg1r

TLDR
Good: rare cool color, runs and drives surprisingly well, numbers match, no structural rust, it’s a roundie tii.
Bad: salvage title, needs just about everything.

Overview

I’ve owned this 2002tii since August of 2016. I picked it up as a project, and after three years I don’t have the time or resources to continue working on it. I don’t know any history on this car before 2001, when it was rescued from a field in Eureka, where it had been sitting in pieces for an unknown amount of time. I believe the car had rear-left quarter damage at that time. In late 2004 it was purchased by a gentleman near Petaluma who built it up using a mish-mash of parts that he had available. Installed currently is a tii motor (#2760341, not original). I believe the rear end damage was repaired and the car repainted below the beltline trim. Under that same ownership, the car was hit in the back again, the bodywork repaired, and left in primer, how it sits today. I believe one of these hits resulted in a Salvage CA title. When I purchased the car I made an effort to track down the original numbers-matching block, which comes with the car.

The original color of the car is Ceylon, which is a rare shade of gold. Today the car is a patchwork of different hues of gold where paintwork was performed, capped off at the back with a brown later decklid and primer around the rear panels. All body trim is rough, but present. Seals and glass are worn. There are spots of rust around the rear windshield. The spare tire well is rotted through. There is some bubbling at the rockers and the bottom of the front and rear panels. On the upside, the floors, frame rails, and shock towers do not show rust. While the back has been damaged, the front seems to have made it through the years intact. There is no ‘snorkel,’ indicating that this is its original nose. Things look pretty straight up there.

The interior is a hodgepodge of 02 parts throughout the years. The dash is not a tii dash, but I have one (with some cracks) that will come with the car. The seats are mismatched E21 Recaros and the fabric is torn up. The front door cards came off a car that had speakers added, there are no speakers now and the door sheetmetal has not been cut up for speakers.

As mentioned, a non-matching tii motor is installed (#2760341). Sale will include the original numbers-matching block, an E12 head, and some ancillary parts. A compression test performed at the end of 2019 showed compression at 147/143/118/138. In my ownership the spark plugs, wires, distributor rotor, cap, and points were replaced. Valves clearances have been adjusted, fuel injection linkages reset and lubricated, and various crisply hoses and fuel lines replaced. The battery and starter were replaced in the last month. Brake and clutch master cylinders have been replaced under my ownership. The motor runs fine but it would be a good idea to rebuild the original numbers-matching motor to get back to original performance. The clutch works well. I rebuilt the shifter linkage in my ownership, the 4-speed transmission works fine but can give a small grind into 4th gear.

The steering feels good and tight. The brakes work well, I installed braided brake hoses. The car is lowered, I do not know which springs, but the ride is nice. Sporty but not too stiff. The wheels are 14” dog-dish style used on the Neue Klasse sedans, someone sprayed them gold at some point and I’ve plasti-dipped them black.

The lights work for the most part, I just replaced the left headlamp, which was cracked. The aftermarket head unit jammed with the faceplate deployed, so no tunes at the moment. There are two speakers in the rear parcel shelf.

It’s a charming little car. It’s not going to be a perfect car so you are free to make it what you wish. You could also just drive it as-is and enjoy the great local 2002 community and the fun events they put on through the year.

Please note that the odometer has not worked while I’ve had the car. I have no idea of mileage considering the history of the car, and the cluster may not be the original one, so I don’t want to make any guesses about mileage.

I’m looking for $9k OBO. I’m located in Sunnyvale, near Levi stadium. Thanks for your interest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Conserv]

Looks like a great project for the right buyer!

 

GLWS,

 

Steve

 

[RYOLEER]

PM sent

[magnus]

Deposit received.

[magnus]

Car is sold to a new home! Will stay in the bay area, and it's in good hands. I hope to see it at some local events like the Swap n' Show.

 

[AWatry]

I'm the guilty party here. Have had one 02 before, a pair of Bavarias, various other BMWs including my wife's E90 M3, Alfas beyond counting. Will be looking for some parts in time. Got a curbside offer for it 20 minutes after getting it home Monday. Digging it the most.

Andrew

[AlfaBMWGuy]

2 hours ago, AWatry said:

I'm the guilty party here. Have had one 02 before, a pair of Bavarias, various other BMWs including my wife's E90 M3, Alfas beyond counting. Will be looking for some parts in time. Got a curbside offer for it 20 minutes after getting it home Monday. Digging it the most.

Andrew

 

Congrats and welcome Andrew.  Happy to see our long-time AlfaBB sedan guru here.  I'm a long-time Alfa sedan (imported a '73 Giulia Super with the help of an AlfaBB contact in Belgium back in 2007 after owning a '74 GTV a few years prior) , BMW 2002, and BMW E30 enthusiast.  I'm an occasional poster both here and the AlfaBB.  Back when I was considering an Alfa sedan, on the AlfaBB I asked for driving comparisons with a 2002 since I'd owned a couple of those.  Your experience back then at least was that 2002s were like driving a little tank, but hopefully that was just the ones you had experienced--think you had a nephew you had one.  I admit they aren't quite as "on their toes" as a Giulia, but still one of the very best sport sedans of their era, or any era I would say. Like the whole of the vintage Alfa community, one of the very best things about a 2002 is the quality of the people who support them, a high percentage of them right here on the FAQ.  Here's my current 2002 and Giulia pairing:

 

-Gary

 

[AWatry]

So I have 43 years driving Giulia sedans and Berlinas. I have the equivalent of six months driving 02s.  My Alfas are really dialed in in terms of driving function, so it's probably not a fair comparison on my part til I get my car dialed in. The 74 2002 I had, once I got the Weber to idle happily, was a really good car. The turbine, smooth nature of the BMW engine outshines the Alfa I think it reviness and smoothness. Not necessarily faster or better but willing and more refined. My bigger gripes on an 02 compared to a Giulia are (1) heavier steering and (2) you sit deeper in the car. So those big windows help you see up, but not forward or downward, compared to the greenhouse in a Giulia Super, Berlina, or GTV. Just my sense from how I sit, and my [lack of] height.

 

I drove a friend's BS 2002 at Buttonwillow some years ago while he drove my track Giulia Super. 2000 compared to 1600 is not quite a fair fight but the BMW would consistently pull away from the Super.

 

All in all, if I never had another Alfa and had to drive BMWs, I wouldn't be unhappy.
 

Andrew

[AlfaBMWGuy]

With stock seats (including a good spring frame suspension and horsehair pads that aren't worn out on a 2002) like I have on both my 2002 and Giulia Super, the commanding view out is one of the best features of both in my opinion.  With my '74 GTV, it always seemed like a form over function compromise.  Too close to sitting on the ground and looking out of a bathtub for my taste--nothing compared to a lot of modern cars though.  At 5'8", I couldn't even set the inside mirror to effectively see traffic behind me--I was either looking at the ground right behind the car if it was aligned to the rear window or half looking at the headliner of the inside of my GTV if I bumped it up enough to see cars behind me.  But, all was solved with the Giulia sedan, which I've always said is function over form instead of the other way around as I found the GTV, and I think the handling of the 4-door was just as good as the GTV even though the latter is considered the "sporty coupe".  Definitely the steering on the 2002 is heavier and feels a bit more numb than the Alfa, which is a big part of why I said the 2002 is not as "on its toes" as a Giulia Super.  I also give the edge in braking to the Alfa.  Transmission comes down to driver preference--short, smooth, but a bit more sloppy throws in the 2002 vs. long, precise, but a bit more notchy in the Alfa.  Again, that's without worn synchros that are common in both.  Your comments on the engine in each are spot on in my experience Andrew.

 

-Gary

Edited February 3, 2020 by AlfaBMWGuy

[ckeen74]

Just came back here for a quick look in, and was surprised to see Andrew here, having bought another car! I don't have a ton of experience working on mine, but I have done a few moderate-scale repairs like the heater box, so if I can offer any help/support, let me know.

 

Interesting on the impressions of 4-cyl. Alfa vs. BMW. Totally subjective, but my feelings were the opposite - while I like the way my tii pulls, I feel like the Alfas (2-liter injected spider and Alfetta GT) urge me to flog them harder, and of course the Alfetta's rack & pinion steering is super-sharp. But maybe that's just the way the cars are set up, or that I'm comparing 2-liter cars. I think about selling the tii sometimes to make room for, say, a Citroen DS, but then I take it out and forget about that...

[magnus]

Some more relevant discussion here:

 

https://bringatrailer.com/2019/07/05/four-cylinder-euro-sports-coupes-1973-bmw-2002tii-or-1974-alfa-romeo-gtv/

Edited February 5, 2020 by magnus

[AlfaBMWGuy]

On 2/3/2020 at 11:43 AM, ckeen74 said:

Interesting on the impressions of 4-cyl. Alfa vs. BMW. Totally subjective, but my feelings were the opposite - while I like the way my tii pulls, I feel like the Alfas (2-liter injected spider and Alfetta GT) urge me to flog them harder, and of course the Alfetta's rack & pinion steering is super-sharp. But maybe that's just the way the cars are set up, or that I'm comparing 2-liter cars.

 

Hi Chris, I don't think there is a significant difference between your feelings and what Andrew and I have stated.  I think the smoothness of the BMW M10 doesn't encourage the same sort "urges" to drive the car aggressively as the more "rough and tumble" (rorty would be another word for it) Alfa DOHC Nord engine.  I've owned 4 E30 BMWs.  The M20 baby six in the 325i/is/iX is sewing machine smooth while making a bunch of torque and power.  Yet, it's my M42 318is and my former S14 M3 that want to be driven harder than the 6-cylinder E30s.  With the M20 and to a bit lesser degree the M10, there is no work on your part to get that smooth rush of power, just push the pedal.  With the M3 S14, as well as the Alfa Nord, you have to be more deliberate.  I suspect going to dual Webers in a 2002 changes the character to encourage more enthusiastic driving by taking away some of that smoothness of the single carb 2002 and injected tii as much as it actually increases power.  It's a playful vs. serious contrast.  In general, certainly not a hard-and-fast rule, Italian cars fall on the playful side while German cars fall on the serious side.

 

-Gary