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Weber 45 DCOE Conversion


Senna27

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Conversion update. Installed the tii booster but the master cylinder now interferes with the battery. Apparently the battery sits lower in ti and tii cars. So it's off to the trunk for the battery. 

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1975 - 2002 - Sabine - Jade

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5 hours ago, Senna27 said:

Conversion update. Installed the tii booster but the master cylinder now interferes with the battery. Apparently the battery sits lower in ti and tii cars. So it's off to the trunk for the battery. 

I just did this about a week ago. I ended up getting a Group 26R battery, which is shorter, but still has same CCA as standard.  The hold down still works even though the battery is off-center in the tray. I then drilled a hole in the bottom of the battery box to route the brake lines through. It's definitely temporary though, ultimately I'll be relocating the battery to under-seat or in the trunk.

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1 hour ago, man_mark_7 said:

I just did this about a week ago. I ended up getting a Group 26R battery, which is shorter, but still has same CCA as standard.  The hold down still works even though the battery is off-center in the tray. I then drilled a hole in the bottom of the battery box to route the brake lines through. It's definitely temporary though, ultimately I'll be relocating the battery to under-seat or in the trunk.


I’m also looking at locating a gel battery under the rear seat with an auxiliary + post under the hood in case I ever need to boost it. 

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10 hours ago, Senna27 said:


I’m also looking at locating a gel battery under the rear seat with an auxiliary + post under the hood in case I ever need to boost it. 

 

This post made me curious about gel batteries. I had just assumed I would to with an AGM. So, I looked up the pros and cons. What tipped you in favor of Gel @Senna27?

 

https://northeastbattery.com/agm-vs-gel-technology/

 

 

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13 hours ago, Chris_B said:

You could try this solution. 

 

battery_tray_solution.jpg

 

That looks tidy. I will look into it. Braille suggested the GreenLite G30 lithium battery. It will run me $1,000 so I think I'll pass on that. 30 lithium

Edited by Senna27

1975 - 2002 - Sabine - Jade

2010 Toyota Matrix XR

Remember: RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

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On 6/25/2020 at 8:01 AM, man_mark_7 said:

 

This post made me curious about gel batteries. I had just assumed I would to with an AGM. So, I looked up the pros and cons. What tipped you in favor of Gel @Senna27?

 

https://northeastbattery.com/agm-vs-gel-technology/

 

 

 

You're right, the AGM is better. That's actually what my friend was referring to, not Gel. They're sealed so they can be mounted in any position except upside down. Looking into the Braille B2317RP with the aluminum mount # 2318. Now if I can only find one locally (Toronto, ON). 

 

Edit: Found a smaller battery which fits nicely in the original location and clears the master cylinder. 

Edited by Senna27
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  • 4 weeks later...
 
Here's an update. This is turning out to be a frustrating conversion. I'm glad I didn't attempt to do it myself in my garage. 
 
The first issue (which I previously mentioned) was the ID of the manifolds didn't match up to the carbs. That is, they were much smaller and the butterflies were actually prevented from fully opening. The scribe lines  show how much material had to be removed in order for them to match up and work properly. 
 
The second issue is the hole centers are off by 1 mm which means the manifold won't slide over the studs on the head. One of the holes will either need to be elongated or drilled out (cylinders #'s 2, 3, and 4) in order for them to fit. Not exactly the proper way to do things. 
 
The third issue is the front manifold (cylinder #1) can't possibly fit as supplied. It should look like the stock manifold, in that there is clearance for the water neck. There should be a small cut-out for the upper stud. Not an actual hole with material around it. 
 
I spoke to Dave, the new owner of Pierce Manifolds. He was very apologetic. He told me the machine shop that made these manifolds has since gone out of business. He also said there is very little by way of documentation for the multitude of manifolds for all sorts of cars in stock. Something he's working on correcting.
 
Dave asked if I know someone who would be able to ship him a junk 2002 head. He'd like to use for measurements so he can modify the 25 sets he still has in stock so they fit. Apparently he's shipped two kits this spring but they haven't complained. I suspect they haven't installed them yet. In the meantime, he's pulling the 2002 kit from his website.
 
In addition to all that, the IE water bypass kit didn't bolt right on either. Had to be modified in order for it to fit.
 
 
Intake Manifold 1.jpg
 

Intake Manifold 2.jpg

Stock and Weber Manifold.jpg

Manifold - Water Neck.jpg

Edited by Senna27
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Quote
  • Here's an update. This is turning out to be a frustrating conversion. I'm glad I didn't attempt to do it myself in my garage. 
 
The first issue (which I previously mentioned) was the ID of the manifolds didn't match up to the carbs. That is, they were much smaller and the butterflies were actually prevented from fully opening. The scribe lines  show how much material had to be removed in order for them to match up and work properly. 
 
The second issue is the hole centers are off by 1 mm which means the manifold won't slide over the studs on the head. One of the holes will either need to be elongated or drilled out (cylinders #'s 2, 3, and 4) in order for them to fit. Not exactly the proper way to do things. 
 
The third issue is the front manifold (cylinder #1) can't possibly fit as supplied. It should look like the stock manifold, in that there is clearance for the water neck. There should be a small cut-out for the upper stud. Not an actual hole with material around it. 
 

 

 

None of this is unusual in any way, shape or form!

 

1.  You have a manifold that was probably designed for DCOE40's, with enough material for them to be opened up

to 45's or 48's.  It's easy to remove aluminum in your home garage with a die grinder.  It's a lot harder to replace

aluminum in your garage with a MIG welder.  So they're sized to start at 40mm.

Cannons are bigger.  They don't work as well with 40's, but are good for even larger carbs than 48's.

 

2.  1mm is pretty darned close for a casting that's been made either across the world or in someone's backyard.

There are PISTONS out there (hi, QSC) that have that level of tolerance.  Again, with the die grinder,

or simply overdrill the holes a bit.

 

3.  Now you're going to want a hack saw...  and a late E21 water neck.

 

It's good to know all these things about the manifold you chose, AND to know that it can't be bolted on as supplied.

 

But it's also not unusual in the least for aftermarket castings to be 'file to fit' and each of us gets to apply our own level of preparation

to the casting.  As long as it has enough material in the right places, that's kinda what you'd expect.

 

As to the fit of parts from the company with the name of a small island country in the North Atlantic,

that is par for the course of my experience, too.

Pretty close, but not always exactly right, unless you get an M20 part in the box instead.

 

t

expecting perfection is inviting disappointment.

 

As to batteries, Odyssey has been berry berry good to me.  For reasonable money.  No touchey my wallet!

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

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On 7/22/2020 at 1:44 PM, TobyB said:

 

 

None of this is unusual in any way, shape or form!

 

1.  You have a manifold that was probably designed for DCOE40's, with enough material for them to be opened up

to 45's or 48's.  It's easy to remove aluminum in your home garage with a die grinder.  It's a lot harder to replace

aluminum in your garage with a MIG welder.  So they're sized to start at 40mm.

Cannons are bigger.  They don't work as well with 40's, but are good for even larger carbs than 48's.

 

2.  1mm is pretty darned close for a casting that's been made either across the world or in someone's backyard.

There are PISTONS out there (hi, QSC) that have that level of tolerance.  Again, with the die grinder,

or simply overdrill the holes a bit.

 

3.  Now you're going to want a hack saw...  and a late E21 water neck.

 

It's good to know all these things about the manifold you chose, AND to know that it can't be bolted on as supplied.

 

But it's also not unusual in the least for aftermarket castings to be 'file to fit' and each of us gets to apply our own level of preparation

to the casting.  As long as it has enough material in the right places, that's kinda what you'd expect.

 

As to the fit of parts from the company with the name of a small island country in the North Atlantic,

that is par for the course of my experience, too.

Pretty close, but not always exactly right, unless you get an M20 part in the box instead.

 

t

expecting perfection is inviting disappointment.

 

As to batteries, Odyssey has been berry berry good to me.  For reasonable money.  No touchey my wallet!

 

I spoke to David Griffith

On 7/22/2020 at 1:44 PM, TobyB said:

 

 

None of this is unusual in any way, shape or form!

 

1.  You have a manifold that was probably designed for DCOE40's, with enough material for them to be opened up

to 45's or 48's.  It's easy to remove aluminum in your home garage with a die grinder.  It's a lot harder to replace

aluminum in your garage with a MIG welder.  So they're sized to start at 40mm.

Cannons are bigger.  They don't work as well with 40's, but are good for even larger carbs than 48's.

 

2.  1mm is pretty darned close for a casting that's been made either across the world or in someone's backyard.

There are PISTONS out there (hi, QSC) that have that level of tolerance.  Again, with the die grinder,

or simply overdrill the holes a bit.

 

3.  Now you're going to want a hack saw...  and a late E21 water neck.

 

It's good to know all these things about the manifold you chose, AND to know that it can't be bolted on as supplied.

 

But it's also not unusual in the least for aftermarket castings to be 'file to fit' and each of us gets to apply our own level of preparation

to the casting.  As long as it has enough material in the right places, that's kinda what you'd expect.

 

As to the fit of parts from the company with the name of a small island country in the North Atlantic,

that is par for the course of my experience, too.

Pretty close, but not always exactly right, unless you get an M20 part in the box instead.

 

t

expecting perfection is inviting disappointment.

 

As to batteries, Odyssey has been berry berry good to me.  For reasonable money.  No touchey my wallet!

 

1. When you buy a 45 DCOE carb/manifold kit, you shouldn't have to remove that much material to make it fit. David Griffith from Pierce agreed with me on that. He's going to modify the remaining sets he has on hand so they're right. That's why he wants an old head to use as a jig.  

 

2. The holes are not cast, they're drilled after the fact. The machine shop simply got the centers wrong. Again, David will make them right.  

 

3. My mechanic machined it to fit. I have an E30 water neck. It's the only thing that fits without needing to be modified. lol 

 

To say my mechanic is a perfectionist is a huge understatement. At least I know the install will be as close to perfect as it gets. ?

 

Edited by Senna27

1975 - 2002 - Sabine - Jade

2010 Toyota Matrix XR

Remember: RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is how far out the upper hole was on the #1 intake that shares the stud for the water neck. He ended up welding a plug in the hole and machining it so it doesn’t look like crap. Almost complete! 
 

1D2962AA-CFD8-46DA-88E9-D7E7AAD9AAFA.jpeg

F33CBC03-2E93-49BD-B8AE-BD9EA1123007.jpeg

AAB38A15-ABD3-4337-9E46-3C7A886A9E34.jpeg

Edited by Senna27

1975 - 2002 - Sabine - Jade

2010 Toyota Matrix XR

Remember: RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

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24 minutes ago, Chris_B said:

Are you going to use air filters?


Yup, UNI filters. Although I wish I didn’t have to. Look so good naked. 

Edited by Senna27

1975 - 2002 - Sabine - Jade

2010 Toyota Matrix XR

Remember: RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

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Agreed, they look great. I have to wonder how effective the Uni filters are (do you have to oil them?) and whether you have any empirical evidence that the air horns provide any measurable performance gain. I am asking because I would give them a shot if that were the case. 

Chris B.

'73 ex-Malaga

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On 8/5/2020 at 10:12 PM, Chris_B said:

Agreed, they look great. I have to wonder how effective the Uni filters are (do you have to oil them?) and whether you have any empirical evidence that the air horns provide any measurable performance gain. I am asking because I would give them a shot if that were the case. 

 

Yes, foam filters require oiling. Same as the K&N I had on my 32/36. As I understand, trumpets smooth out the air flow into your intake. Smoother air flow means more air flow, and more air means more ability to burn fuel, and burning more fuel means more power. 

 

I'm sure others here can shed more light on how different length trumpets affect HP/torque/performance. 

 

Edited by Senna27

1975 - 2002 - Sabine - Jade

2010 Toyota Matrix XR

Remember: RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

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