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KwikFiVo

Recurve Distributor

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Hi!!

 

I have a 1975 2002 and I am having some ignition timing challenges.  I understand the go-to answer will be to buy the 123 Ignition, or to have it rebuilt and recurved, but I am trying to do this on a tight budget first to get by for now.

 

The challenge is that my ignition curve is way too aggressive.  I do not have the numbers in front of me, but it seems like all of my timing is in before 2000 RPMs.  Unless I retard the timing and go a few degrees ATDC the car will ping between 3000 and 4500 RPM under acceleration.  When I eliminate pinging by retarding the base timing it will not run above 6000 RPM.  The engine is a little tired, and I know cylinders 1 and 4 are low on compression, if that is relevant.

 

I would like to experiment with changing the springs to slow the advance down.  Does anyone know where I can get these?  Or have any other advice?

 

I have tried every combination of using manifold and ported vacuum with the vacuum advance/retard ports (including having the disconnected, or just one or the other connected) with no success.  I believe it all has to do with the mechanical advance.

 

Thank you,

 

Bob

 

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Bob, where are you located? Im sure you can borrow a distributor from your local group for testing especially with so many people now using 123's.

 

Before i got my 123, i bought a cardone rebuilt distributor for $100. It worked great. Pretty inexpensive.

 

Remember to disconnect and plug both vacuum advance and retard when finding the ball at 1400rpms. Leave the vacuum retard plugged and only use the vacuum advance. Should use the ported vacuum on the carb or else the vacuum advance will kick in at idle.

 

 

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9 hours ago, KwikFiVo said:

seems like all of my timing is in before 2000 RPMs.

 

I'm waiting for Mint to chime in, but I think he'll agree. It sounds like your advance weights have either stuck fully extended, there are no springs attached to them, or any combination of sordid things.

 

Yes, you can rebuild your dizzy, but without a Sun Machine to dial it in, you may not end up much better off.  There are rebuilding services out there that can get you back where you need to be.  You could buy a number of aftermarket distributors.  I have used IE with limited success (please replace the igniter with a HotSpark as soon as you get one) and the 123 I installed 5 years ago still runs perfectly.

 

In he meantime, remove yours and take it apart; you may find something very simple and be on your way.

 

Ed

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There's a guy up in the great north (Minnesota, Wisconsin?--help me out here, guys--) who can rebuild and recurve your distributor to go with any mods that you've made to your engine.  I had him do one for me to take advantage of the higher compression and 284 Schrick cam, and it works very well, and a lot less expensive than a 123 dizzy..  

 

Someone on the FAQ will have his contact info, I just can't put my finger on it right now...

 

Cheers

mike

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1 hour ago, zinz said:

Yes, you can rebuild your dizzy, but without a Sun Machine to dial it in, you may not end up much better off. 

 

This looks like a nice machine.  On eBay now, with one bidder at $300.  It's got the condenser tester too.  

s-l1600.jpg

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUN-Distributor-Tester/254276085562?hash=item3b3409273a:g:dTYAAOSw-fldEq-I

 

(I'll bet a few people get in on the bidding for that one.  It'll be interesting to see what it goes for).

 

 

You can get this variable timing light - dwell meter - volt meter - tachometer - tool delivered to-your-doorstep for a hundred dollars.  (Hi Worzella) 

 

https://www.amazon.com/INNOVA-5568-Pro-Timing-Light-Tool/dp/B000EVU8J8

 

I'm remembering your last post, where you said your timing light broke and you were doing it "by ear"... this would be a nice replacement.  The variable advance feature will let you plot the curve, to really know how your distributor is behaving.

 

I am also curious about where you are located.  You could bring your distributor over here, if you were local.  Here is a very long thread showing some of the fun I've had playing with distributors.  It'll give you some ideas about what you'll find inside yours if you open it up.  I played with swapping springs around and it is pretty fussy-business.  The first few pages in that thread were pre-Sun-machine testing, using the timing light above.

 

 

Tom

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34 minutes ago, mike said:

There's a guy up in the great north (Minnesota, Wisconsin?--help me out here, guys--)

 

MinnesOta.  You can Google up Jeff, at Advanced Distributors.  I think he'll do it for twice the price of that timing light... or so.

 

Even if you go that route, I'd still suggest buying that light.  (Hi Randy)

 

Tom

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Before doing anything else, double check the screw that secures the condensor to the distributor housing.  It should be a short screw.  IF a longer one has been accidentally installed (like one from the mounting clips), the exposed threads may block the interior plate.  This was just one tip told to us by Terry Sayther during his distributor tech session at Mid America fest.   

 

After doing that, I'd send your distributor to Jeff at Advanced in MN.  He rebuilt/recurved my 008 dizzy in my tii. 

 

 

 

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Hi Everyone,

 

Thank you for the feedback.  I ended up getting a timing light that I allows me to dial in the advance (very awesome, and should have had one years ago).

 

I am going to check some things out first and explore all of the other options mentioned.  It turns out Jeff is only 20 miles from me up here in MN, now I just need to figure out if I should just go with the 123 Ignition or with a rebuild/recurve.  I am planning to rebuild the motor and add some mods, so the the ability to tune the 123 Ignition is interesting.

 

Thank you,

 

Bob

 

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Are the vacuum canisters on the side of dist in work order.

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Yes, you can go to the hardware store, get a few light springs, sleeve material and some thin 

washers, and do your own distributor freshen.  It may not be perfect,

but it will be better than a worn- out sticky dirty old mess.

 

If there's enough left in yours to do decent forensics, you can start

by trying to match what's in there.  Things will be worn (thus, the sleeves)

and sticky (thin washers of plastic, graphite, etc) and the springs will be ineffective.

Often just from cumulative wear.  

 

Googling pictures of Bosch distributor mechanical advances will help a lot.

One spring is soft, and affects the entire curve until it hits the stop.

The other is stronger, and kicks in mid- curve to slow the rate of advance.

It sounds like your second spring is not working, and the first one is a bit weak.

 

Since the mechanical advance is purely rev driven, it's easy to work on, 

then test with your timing light to see what happened.  Then adjust, and try again.

And then road test, and try a third time.

 

By the end of it, you'll have something that works well on your engine,

and a MUCH better idea of how distributors work, AND how spark advance

affects engine performance.

 

 

Go for it!  

 

t

 

doesn't rev an older motor much past 6k, himself.

Valve float, wot?

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Today I removed the distributor and took it apart and see what I could find.  There was a nice coating of dirt and oil all throughout the distributor; the vacuum advance components barely moved.  I noticed that one advance spring has a longer loop on one end, which I assume is the spring that does not start limiting advance until higher RPMs.  However, I noticed that this spring was almost completely ineffective (when I turned the distributor to create advance this spring barely engaged at all).

 

I cleaned everything and made a small modification to the spring mentioned above so that it would engage earlier.  When I put it back together and timed it I am still having problems with detonation, but if I keep the vacuum advance disconnected it is not as bad.

 

I might try to see what types of springs I can find online; there is not much available for the Bosch, but I can probably hot-rod it and use something close (I found several spring kits from Summit Racing).  However, I am starting to get closer to pulling the trigger on the 123 Ignition.

 

Thank you,

 

Bob

 

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Your 75 has lower compression so to have it ping is a big deal.

123 is a good option. Since then I went to crank trigger.

Is your dizzy advance and retard? Or just advance?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Bob, please keep us apprised of what happens after your clean up. Lots if good advice here.

I moved to a 123 with no issues, (however this may open another can of worms).

Others are having some problems with oil contamination with the 123, and Tom (76Mintgrun' 02l) has had some problems with the USB version.

But at least the consensus here is the 123 is da bomb....(no July 4th pun intended). 

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2 minutes ago, Vicleonardo1 said:

Tom (76Mintgrun' 02l) has had some problems with the USB version.

No sir, not me!

I do not have a 123.

I have an 021, with points and condenser ... thank you very much.

 

 

That'd be ray_ you're thinking of.

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7 minutes ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

No sir, not me!

I do not have a 123.

I have an 021, with points and condenser ... thank you very much.

 

 

That'd be ray_ you're thinking of.

Sorry Tom, 

Just a bit too much of the grape this evening.

I apologize.....

Forgive me for my age...Ya know Da Bros.....Tom and Ray (ie Click and Clack) are still on my mind.....

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