Is anyone familiar with this car? '73 in Portland OR

[A6ndrew]

I think this is going to be my new car. Seems very clean and well kept with a lot of new parts and paint. 

 

http://www.westcoastautoenthusiasts.com/details2.php?car_id=MTgyNg==

 

Couple questions for the crew here.

1. The seats have been reupholstered, seller says they are not the original seats, can anyone identify what they came out of?

2. Seller assures that the repaint is in the original color (under hood and inside trunk are still original and seems to match). Looking at the color database, I can't tell if its Riviera or Baikal. Are there any identifying characteristics that would tell me what the original paint color was? or any way to find out?

3. Needs new carpet and new center console and replacement trunk liner - suggestions on where to start there would be much appreciated

 

Thanks all. Hopefully no major surprises on this car. 

 

 

[Mike Self]

Some observations: 

 

The VIN is definitely a '73, probably January or February '73 production.  Interestingly, the VIN that's stamped into the inner fender either isn't there or isn't visible, even in the enlarged pictures.... However, it appears to have a squarelight nose, or at least squarelight grilles.  The steering wheel is from a 74-76 car, as are the black wiper arms/ blades and the one-piece dash--which appears to have been re-skinned. 

 

The repaint color is most likely Riviera, or something close.  Baikal is metallic, and this paint job appears to be non-metallic,  It's hard to tell from photos, but the color appears to be darker than Rivera, but not as dark as Atlantic (almost a Navy blue).  However, from the condition of the paint in the trunk, that's probably the original paint.  An e-mail to BMW Classic with the VIN will elicit the original build date and original color.   I've never seen an A/C console & shift boot quite like that one, and the glovebox appears to be missing.  The carpets are not correct; however, the seats appear to be, although front and back appear to have been reupholstered--note that the color doesn't match the door panels. 

 

mike

[A6ndrew]

Interesting about the nose. What is the difference between the squarelight nose vs the round light nose?

 

If the fenders were replaced with aftermarket fenders would that explain the missing VIN stamp? 

 

My understanding is the seller added an AC system, hence the hacked up center console. And probably the reason for the missing glove box. I would definitely remove whats there and replace with more original looking center console/glove box.

[Mike Self]

Squarelight vs roundie noses:  grilles are completely different--aluminum on the early cars, plastic on 74-76.  And the openings are different--the center grille on roundies has a space between it and the side grilles that's not present on squarelights.  

 

The stamped VIN is on the inner fender (side of the engine compartment), which is part of the body structure.  The fenders (or nose, or both) on this car have been replaced, because the seam between nose and fender above the headlight is visible.  It was filled by the factory (but not below the headlights)

 

I don't know of a '02 A/C system (except the very early Frigikings and Mark IV's) that necessitate glovebox removal--and there doesn't seem to be anything where the glovebox goes except some carpet.  If the dash has been re-skinned, it's possible that the glovebox wouldn't fit so was left off.  But that's just a guess.  

 

mike

[Conserv]

The BMW Group Archives email address referenced by Mike S., above, is info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com. If you send them an email with the car’s VIN, requesting the car’s data, you will find out the original exterior color, generally within two business days.

 

The square taillight nosepiece is designed to hold plastic grilles, which are slightly larger (longer?) than the round taillight’s anodized aluminum grilles. Although I’ve seen owners alter nosepieces to correct for this mis-match, it’s more common to either (a.) ignore the mis-match, or (b.) re-swap the nosepiece to correct the mis-match.

 

The A/C unit looks like the modern unit being sold by Select Classics, out of Dallas. Although there are not a lot of these units in service thus far, initial reports suggest they can be effective.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Conserv

[02Les]

This car was on Ebay May thru' Sep 2013 by Silverstone Motorcars. Whilst they are in North Andover, MA, the auction stated the car was in Brookfield, IL. Assuming this was correct, how could the car be local to Beaverton, OR, for 12 years?

The car had its "late" nose then and some rust was evident, particularly the passenger fender low down behind the wheel. The paint was ok but may have been an earlier repaint as the "stamped" VIN was painted over and difficult to see then.

The car has now been repainted again; no doubt making the VIN stamp invisible, and, like Mike said, it looks darker than Riviera, assuming computer, camera & lighting are not playing a part.

With the lack of attention to detail on the last refurbishment IMO it is not worth $18,500 and probably why they have had it 4 months and no sale.

[A6ndrew]

Understood on the nose differences. Thanks for pointing that out. that either the car was in an accident, or the front end had rust issues and the nose/fenders were replaced prior to the repaint. 

 

Good to know about the AC system. I would like to keep it if it can be hidden better. It looks like the passenger side of the center console was cut out to make it fit and that bothers me a bit. That's why I was thinking it might have something to do with the missing glove box on that side, but perhaps that's just because of the reskinned dash.

 

I am curious what folks here think of the asking price on the car as-is. I'm no expert but I have been in the market for a 2002 for the last couple months and have been watching prices as they come up for sale or go to auction. This car seems like a 15-20k car and that's where it's priced. It's obviously a candidate for some interior overhaul in terms of the carpet, center console, shifter and glove box, but I don't see those as deal breakers, and frankly they are things I can handle pretty easily. 

[Jimmy]

2 hours ago, A6ndrew said:

I think this is going to be my new car. Seems very clean and well kept with a lot of new parts and paint. 

 

http://www.westcoastautoenthusiasts.com/details2.php?car_id=MTgyNg==

 

Couple questions for the crew here.

1. The seats have been reupholstered, seller says they are not the original seats, can anyone identify what they came out of?

2. Seller assures that the repaint is in the original color (under hood and inside trunk are still original and seems to match). Looking at the color database, I can't tell if its Riviera or Baikal. Are there any identifying characteristics that would tell me what the original paint color was? or any way to find out?

3. Needs new carpet and new center console and replacement trunk liner - suggestions on where to start there would be much appreciated

 

Thanks all. Hopefully no major surprises on this car. 

 

 

 

The seats are roundie 2002 seats, just not the original seats for that particular car.

 

This car isn't "very clean" as you say. It has the wrong nose. The engine and undercarriage haven't been touched. I'd bet all of the bushings are original. Lots of little details ignored. If they really had the bumpers rechromed, why didn't they have the dents removed? Don't you find it the least bit curious that no pictures have been included of the allegedly "new" parts that have been replaced? Like the diff, water pump, steering box, brake hoses, heck, even the visors.

 

This is what a car being sold by a flipper looks like. And of course, it's over-priced. I've seen cars come and go from Seattle and PDX craigslist that are nicer, for less money.

 

If you just want a driver and don't care that it's an early/late hybrid, maybe give 10k for it.

[A6ndrew]

@Jimmy - I'm glad i posted it here, because the mismatched nose is a bit of a problem. I would likely have to live with it because that's not something I'm going to redo. While I do think it's a little overpriced, I don't believe its a $10k car.

 

Seller says they have receipts for all of the items replaced in the last few years, I won't call them a liar unless all of the sudden they can't produce paperwork. Im not scare of an engine bay that will need attention, again I have enough experience wrenching to handle that. What I can't do is body and paint work.

[A6ndrew]

@02Les - Thanks for the history. I tried to search the VIN but couldnt find it listed for sale previously. Interesting that it had the late model nose back then. I guess that was the first round of body work, with another respray in recent years. 

 

The more I look at it, the color to me looks off. I have requested the name of the shop that did the paint work from the sellers invoices so I can contact them and chat about the work. If it turns out not to be the original color, that's probably the end of this one. If the paint is correct at least, I might consider it even with the mismatched nose but some negotiating would need to be done. 

 

Thanks everyone for your expertise. Keep the input coming, it is all much appreciated.

[Jimmy]

34 minutes ago, A6ndrew said:

@Jimmy - I'm glad i posted it here, because the mismatched nose is a bit of a problem. I would likely have to live with it because that's not something I'm going to redo. While I do think it's a little overpriced, I don't believe its a $10k car.

 

Seller says they have receipts for all of the items replaced in the last few years, I won't call them a liar unless all of the sudden they can't produce paperwork. Im not scare of an engine bay that will need attention, again I have enough experience wrenching to handle that. What I can't do is body and paint work.

 

The paint doesn't match either. 

 

Obviously, what you decide to do is your business, but you can't say you weren't warned.

 

Cheers.

[landon]

22 minutes ago, A6ndrew said:

I don't believe its a $10k car.

 

The car is worth whatever anyone will pay for it. It is not a rust free car. There are too many pics with surface rust on the suspension pieces, trunk, rockers, etc. Surface rust in itself is not the end of the day but to me it is indicative of other things hiding under a masked off respray. If you are not doing body and paint work you should examine this carefully so you know what you are getting. 

[A6ndrew]

Sounds like I need some more info from the seller, thanks again for helping me get my list of questions together.

 

Also sounds like at 18k its way overpriced. if the paint color is correct, the nose was correct and the interior wasn't hacked up it might be worth that much.

 

If the paint color is just some random blue that's "close" I am 100% out on this car. If the bodyshop that did the work is reputable and can confirm the BMW paint code that they used, I would consider negotiating on the price.

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, 02Les said:

This car was on Ebay May thru' Sep 2013 by Silverstone Motorcars. Whilst they are in North Andover, MA, the auction stated the car was in Brookfield, IL. Assuming this was correct, how could the car be local to Beaverton, OR, for 12 years?

 

1. Move polished turd from rust belt to PNW

2. Lie about car's history

3. Add "west coast" premium

4. Profit

[jp5Touring]

I agree with what people have posted  here. The incorrect front nose and dash are big ticket items in my book.

That alone would be a deal breaker, the level of detail on the carpet and such is down right horrible. 

Kinda agree with the $10k price, thinkin can o worms.  Hard pass.