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Close ratio gearbox options


Lofty

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Interested in close ratio gearbox options that'll fit in the standard manual 2002 tunnel. Using search I have seen Couttsdesigns Toyota W58 behind a VW TDi though it was an automatic 2002 to start with. There's a T5 in 2.3 Ford/Volvo engined 2002 that was for sale in 2011 that LimeySteve owns (owned). Tomorrowcalling in NZ did a Ford type 4 speed

 

Anyone fitted a Miata 5 or 6 speed into a 2002?

 

Ratios are not good but has anyone used a 245CR in racing? 235CR is too weak. 

 

Note: i am allowed minor reshaping of the trans tunnel and cutting or enlarging a hole in the floor for gear shift mechanism.

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2 hours ago, Lofty said:

Ratios are not good but has anyone used a 245CR in racing?

yup.  have one in my M2 track car.  5,000 track miles on it so far with zero issues.  tranny had unknown street miles on it before i got it.

 

the 2-3 ratio spread sucks, but i just use a taller (4.44) diff to keep the engine in the 3/4/5 gear range.

2xM3

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If it were me, and I had the money - it would be a ZF S5-18/3.  They can take a beating, spares are available, different ratio's are available (you can make basically what you want), and as previously stated they were homologated for Gr2 and Gr5 cars (Schnitzer 1.4 turbo's used them).  I think a 245cr would be a good option, if you can find one, that not so easy.

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The T5 takes a little more than 'minor' modification, but in the US at least, the gearbox itself is almost free to start

if you use the early turbo Thunderbird version with good ratios.

It fits to the auto trans bellhousing, and when you want really good ratios, one can be built for $1500 or so.  So the up- front

cost is a bit, but running costs are very low.  It is a bit heavy, but the weight's mostly where you want it.

They are reliable behind V8's with twice the M10's torque, and very low drag in 'World Class' versions 

 

cheapskate who doesn't like to build racecars around 'unobtanium' parts.

(of course, that said, I tried a Nismo trans out of a Datsun roadster.  That

actually would have worked ok, if I hadn't made so many rookie mistakes building it)

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

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Thanks for the replies. Sorry for the delay in responding, every time I have tried to reply I have been called away.

 

I do have a line on the 245CR so maybe. ZF S5-18/3 sounds perfect, just have to find one. 

Someone mentioned the japanese 6 speeds in Miatas, Nissan S15 and RX8s could be an option for size.

 

There's a  few SR20s in 2002. Any using 6 speeds or are they 5 speeds?

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  • 2 years later...

The bell housings are the same as the early 4 and 5 speed gearboxes used on the M30 6 cylinder E3/E9/E12/E24/E28 cars as well as the E30 M3.  I have a few with and without the crank sensor mounts.  They are not impossible to find.  

1970 1602 (purchased 12/1974)

1974 2002 Turbo

1988 M5

1986 Euro 325iC

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On 5/18/2019 at 4:00 PM, Lofty said:

Someone mentioned the japanese 6 speeds in Miatas, Nissan S15 and RX8s could be an option for size.


when I go to my club track days, Miata (we call them MX5 here mate) owners beg me to find the bmw 245 overdrive. Using Miata gearbox is going backwards. Who told you the 235/5 is too weak? What’s your output power so I can recommend.

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you mean, like this, in the middle of page 2?  (done since this thread started 2 years back)

 

The 235-5 historically is 'strong enough' if it was a consumable.

But it's hard and pricey to find, especially in close ratios.

 

Most of those who are serious about racing use something like 

a Jerico that can be geared however you like.  Hardly any more expensive

up front, but far cheaper, less time consuming and more effective.

 

t

 

 

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

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2 hours ago, TobyB said:

Most of those who are serious about racing use something like 

a Jerico that can be geared however you like.  Hardly any more expensive

up front, but far cheaper, less time consuming and more effective.

 

 

Adding a data point: Those who race in organizations with a rulebook which exclude transmissions like the Jericho and/or those who don’t cheat the rules, will chase and continue to use those difficult-to-find OE boxes and Getrag options. -KB

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Transmissions in race cars are "consumable" items. They all wear out at some point.  Their interface with the organic component can make a significant difference on their life expectancy.  Street car based transmissions can have issues with the heat that comes with racing. The 235/5 and 245/10&11 boxes have gears that are just pressed onto the counter shaft without any splines or keys.  If you get them hot enough and supply enough torque through them you will spin the gear on the shaft, do that ONE TIME and the only way to fix it is to weld the gear to the shaft (there are no replacement parts!!!) .   

 

Remember the street car boxes were designed with a 140 HP 6400 rpm engine in a 2200lb car with 168SR13 tires in mind.  It needed to be quiet and easy to shift even when it's below freezing in the winter and go 30,000 miles between oil changes.  200+ HP, 8000 rpm and 10" wide slicks are all MAJOR factors in the failure of a gearbox,  Then add in a driver with a bad case of RED MIST and you better have a spare in the trailer.  

 

At some point the vintage racing organizations are going to have to allow aftermarket gearboxes when the supply of correct 50 year old gearboxes finally dries up.  Getting someone to make new replacement gears is possible but the costs are prohibitive unless you can find few hundred other people that are willing to step up and write a check.   

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1970 1602 (purchased 12/1974)

1974 2002 Turbo

1988 M5

1986 Euro 325iC

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9 hours ago, Preyupy said:

Getting someone to make new replacement gears is possible but the costs are prohibitive unless you can find few hundred other people that are willing to step up and write a check.   

They are already being made ~7800€ + tax for a Race or Rallye geared 235

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