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Dudeland

Just strait up can't figure it out. $50 reward offered.

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What intake manifold are you running? 

Stock intake port matched and a monkey ball hone.


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You say it goes lean when you get off the throttle.  Many of the fuel injection systems completely turn off the injectors when they see a closed throttle signal from the TPS AND the RPM is above a certain speed (usually 1300-1400 rpm) If the engine decelerates too quickly it might stall before the ECU can turn the injectors back on and actually get some fuel all the way to the cylinders.  You might also try setting the idle speed you want with the throttle plate and use the IAC to raise the idle speed for cold start or when the A/C compressor is running (if you have A/C) so any lag time between the ECU and the IAC does not let the idle fall below your selected speed. 

The injectors are still on. There is a fuel cutoff functionality that I used to see if it was a false lean condition, but it was not the case.

I am sitting in the McDonald’s waiting for the dyno shop to open it have it dyno tuned. This is the best I can do with what I have. After this I may peanut out the intake, but this is about it. Not sure if it is a good idea as some have reported that it messed up the flow under the carb and caused it to act funny in the transition.




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Ok 

spill the beans, we have all been following your adventure. What did the dyno tell you. Also how was the shop? Where is it and what do they charge? What’s included? I ask because I need to visit a dyno myself

regards

jay

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(edited)
3 hours ago, golf02 said:

Ok 

spill the beans, we have all been following your adventure. What did the dyno tell you. Also how was the shop? Where is it and what do they charge? What’s included? I ask because I need to visit a dyno myself

regards

jay

So the shop is super nice, along with the tech.   We had a good chat about the car, what I have done, and the problems I was having.  The overall commentary is that the car is running rich.  I am at 12.5 at idle, 12.9 at cruize, 12.5 at WOT.   He said that other than that my tune was pretty good. 

 

He added some timing on the decel (low map/low rev) to help take the pop out of the deceleration.  His thought was it was either too much fuel to too little timing.  This I don't think was accurate as when he leans out the overall mix, he leans out the decel.  Also it always goes lean immediately after I take my foot off the throttle.   The pop is very bad, so not sure it helped. 

 

Whenever I go over 12.9 afr at idle I get surging, the 13.9 that it was set at worked for a bit, but then the surge became very pronounced.

 

So not really anything alarming or out of the ordinary.  We confirmed that my crank trigger is working properly and indexed correctly. 

 

The tune that he left me with was markedly worse that what I have,  to the point where i put my original tune back in, and just bumped the timing on decel and changed my cruize to 13.7.   

 

So in short nothing earth shaking, I think what I have is kinda tired, and I will have to live with the idle overrun issue until I can get the motor freshened up and perhaps a set of ITB's.   Whatever is happening is probably the result of the fundamental design of the EFI and motor.   Some weird pressure/temperature/timing thing that coalesces and manifests itself in a idle overrun.   I or perhaps it is compression related, some sort of dynamic/static compression deal where the compression changes with RPM, and on decel the compression falls off and it just can't catch itself.  In either case it can't be diagnosed with the data at hand.  It isn't my configuration, or installation. It is something that is strangely unique. 

 

I doubt that I will have the opportunity to compare notes with anyone regarding the sniper efi and the M10,  although I think it is just a matter of time before a big company produces a EFI replacement for the DGAV type of Webber.  

 

I am off to the Spanish Banks Cars and Coffee tomorrow with an absolutely filthy car, as I have had less than zero time to do anything this week.  I may wake up early tomorrow and give it a once over scrub. 

 

My next major move (besides pondering)  is to road trip down to Patrick at Midnight to see what is what.   If there is anyone that wants to join me, please feel free to reach out.  All I hope is that the Canadian dollar gains some ground on the U.S, the conversion is painful.  

Edited by Dudeland

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Ok so how do I resolve this?  I feel I owe you all for your help on this.  How about I just take like $200 and donate it to a charity on behalf of the BMW 2002 Faq forum.

 

There are tons of great charities.  Is there one that the FAQ supports? 

 

 

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I feel that you owe us nothing, this forum has always been a supportive place, pay it back by helping others. If anything write a clear and concise how to tech article helping others with the steps of how to integrate all of the hardware you have. Although the project you embarked on had some issues, you have learned more than most while figuring things out. Share the wealth, a well written tutorial will save someone more than the 200 dollar donation, and will continue to save other 02 fans for as long as the forum is running.

 

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(edited)

I don't know, why not donate the $200 to the FAQ, the place that made this all possible

Edited by yeewiz
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(edited)
2 hours ago, yeewiz said:

I don't know, why not donate the $200 to the FAQ, the place that made this all possible

 

True Faqts.

 

But i mean if no one wants your $200, I’ll take it 🙂

Edited by flagoworld
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Ok FWIW I just did a compression test, pretty much 150 across the board. So compression isn't the issue. 

 

 

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Ok so to make this thing whole I donated $200 to Covenant House in Vancouver Canada.  My family supports the this very worthy cause raising over $15,000 last year alone during their sleep out night.  

 

Thanks all for your help.  

 

A little bit more information...  

 

Covenant House Vancouver

 

     Providing love and hope to Vancouver's homeless and at-risk street youth. We help young people aged 16 to 24 who have fled physical, emotional and sexual abuse; those who have been forced from their homes; and those who have aged out of foster care.

 

https://www.covenanthousebc.org/

 

 

Thank you for your gift of $200.00 to Covenant House Vancouver, your contribution is greatly appreciated. You are helping to give more than 1,100 young people a second chance at a happy, healthy life this year!

A PDF of your tax receipt is attached to this email. The receipt is an Adobe Acrobat PDF file that you can open with Adobe Acrobat Reader. If you do not have Adobe Reader, you can download it. 

Together, we will provide at-risk and homeless youth with support in one of our life-changing programs within our Continuum of Care. Thanks to your support we will meet youth on the street and help them right there on the spot, welcome them into our Drop-In Program for a hot meal or clean, dry clothes, provide refuge from the streets in our gender-specific Crisis Programs, teach them new life skills in our long-term transitional housing program called Rights of Passage.

Thank you for supporting these incredibly resilient young people on their journey forward. You are lifting them up from the shadows of the street and helping them create lasting change in their lives.

Any time you want to see the difference you are making please feel free to call us at 604-638-GIFTS (4438) and we would be happy to set up a tour or answer any questions you may have.

With Gratitude,

Covenant House Vancouver

 

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Donation Summary:

Donation Date:

03/08/19

 

 

 

 
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Ok so who knew Hogs are good?, and maybe peanuts less so?

 

So I just got around to "hogging" out the intake to see if that would make a difference on my overshoot.  It most definitely changed things.  First impressions are that it seems less spastic, and more predictable.  

 

The reason why I think it may be running better is that by removing the center bit (in the picture below), and hogging it out to the shape of the weber gasket gave the TBI more air space.  The thought is that gives the air and fuel more time to mix before it has to hang a right and go into the runners.  Perhaps due to the space there is more turbulence, or the MAP/IAC get better signals.   I suspect that some fuel may have been hitting and condensing on the side of the holes cut in the intake manifold and falling on the bottom of the manifold.  

 

What I was shocked by is how thick the manifold is below the TBI.  The bit below is at least 2-2.5 CM thick, so adding that to the adapter plate thickness meant that the overall thickness below the carb, including the base of the carb itself is at 4-4.5 CM.  I suspect that the velocity of air would pelt the bottom of the intake or spray the sides of the ports in the manifold with fuel. 

 

An important note, it is essential that the bottom of the TBI be covered appropriately, meaning it can't be open to free air.  There are ports both for MAP and IAC that are designed to be part of the intake bore of the TBI.  With the adapter plate it provides that coverage and routes these channels correctly. 

 

I know some have complained about hogging out the intake only to have their DGAV start to act up.  If the bottom is not covered then this is likely why it starts to act funny... or so i have read.  

 

I will continue to drive it and let it self tune before I come to any conclusions, but at least it changed something. 

 

 

IMG_0831.thumb.JPG.81204359122bd7df902785222a93da87.JPG

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a month after installing all new manifold and and other intake / 'vacuum' related items all nuts needed tightening. This was a very frustrating and hard to find cause for vacuum leak that caused too much air in the mix and consequential backfire and stalling under braking. I'd be checking again for vacuum leaks.

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This throttle body has  "hidden" fuel injectors which spray into a cavity and then the fuel exits (squirts) out a series of small holes around the perimeter of the throttle bores, correct?

 

I wonder if the amount of fuel needed to idle a 2002 engine is a little too small for that type of system deal with especially when trying to catch the idle on decel. The fuel falls out of the holes ok when idling but the G forces of a hard stop sticks the fuel from the front 1/2 or 2/3 of the holes in the bore to the bore walls. Sort of like pissing into the wind. An engine with more fuel flow would not have this issue.

 

A throttle body with an exposed fuel injector (like GM TBI) would also not have this issue since the injector would be atomizing fuel directly into the airstream.

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