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Just strait up can't figure it out. $50 reward offered.


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47 minutes ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

Crank triggers are the bomb diggity, huh? :D

Yes

20190615 Final Harness.jpg

A radiator shop is a good place to take a leak.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing but I know I'm really good at it.

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Toby. I think we all deserve $50 for following this thread. It has evolved into the subject of EFI

I hope somebody does a summary on fuel injecting m-10s

I’m sooo happy to be satisfied with a crude metal can that leaks gas  into the intake manifold with enough regularity to make the car run

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Lets just say that this thread has meandered a bit.  But the core of the problem is that it stalls when stopping at a stop sign, and when it comes down off of high idle it wants to overshoot and stall sometime. 

 

Things checked

1) Vacuum leak

2) Brake Booster leak

3) Fuel pressure fluctuation

4) Voltage

5) Intake leak

6) Timing config/ issues

7) Vac assisted timing issues

? other configs including fuel ramps, timing gullies , bimble vectors, qudrallent cross porting, reverberant induction speed density,  and all points in between. (I think some of those may be real things)  

 

Nothing has helped.

 

Taking it to the Dyno folks on Friday. I have no idea if they even know how to tune this thing, but at least I will get a dyno sheet to post. Maybe they can help, but I think that the fundamental problem is the TBI type EFI system. Fuel is coming out of suspension in the intake and throwing things off....  Maybe .  Or it is just a 45 year old car and she doesn't like the technology.   

 

In either case my next one will likely be a ITB system backed up by a Halltech type EFI system. 

 

 

 

 

 

"Goosed" 1975 BMW 2002

 

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4 hours ago, TobyB said:

this

thread

has 

20 

pages.

 

I can't figure that out.

 

Someone pay me $50.

 

t

 

 

2 hours ago, rstclark said:

Toby. I think we all deserve $50 for following this thread. It has evolved into the subject of EFI

I hope somebody does a summary on fuel injecting m-10s

I’m sooo happy to be satisfied with a crude metal can that leaks gas  into the intake manifold with enough regularity to make the car run

 

It has been so long that I started to think that someone owed me $50.  Kidding aside I think the money belongs to the person who said that it would idle like shit and don't even try.    I will try to find the post, it my be in my blog. 

 

 

"Goosed" 1975 BMW 2002

 

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3 hours ago, rstclark said:

I hope somebody does a summary on fuel injecting m-10s

No one way to do it.  There are at least a half dozen methods.  Since I have already done a full synchronous system, ITBs and single throttle body, if I were to drop the M10 back in it would be with MAF load control not TPS (Alpha-N) nor MAP.    COPs on the M10 are too messy to mount.

Edited by jimk

A radiator shop is a good place to take a leak.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing but I know I'm really good at it.

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2 hours ago, Dudeland said:

 Or it is just a 45 year old car and she doesn't like the technology.   

I know it’s not quite apples to apples, but my ‘55 International Harvester straight six likes the GM TBI system from an Astro van just fine. Sure I’ve had to modify some parameters (I’m on my 17th chip written and still likely have 5-10 more to go before I’m 100% satisfied ), but it really seems quite happy with the old school TBI. I’ll start gathering the pieces to put a double barrel TBI on an M10 and see where it goes. My ‘73 can be the test mule. It’ll have a 292 cam, header, exhaust. I have a 38/38 for it as well but swapping the two will be easy enough. I think with the right fuel pressure and injectors some tweaks to the maps etc should make for a fine runner. 

2 hours ago, Dudeland said:

 

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, VWJake said:

Sure I’ve had to modify some parameters (I’m on my 17th chip written and still likely have 5-10 more to go before I’m 100% satisfied )

You do chip burns (unless you have the Moates set up).  It's a long, long road to a good tune.

Edited by jimk

A radiator shop is a good place to take a leak.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing but I know I'm really good at it.

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13 hours ago, VWJake said:

I know it’s not quite apples to apples, but my ‘55 International Harvester straight six likes the GM TBI system from an Astro van just fine. Sure I’ve had to modify some parameters (I’m on my 17th chip written and still likely have 5-10 more to go before I’m 100% satisfied ), but it really seems quite happy with the old school TBI. I’ll start gathering the pieces to put a double barrel TBI on an M10 and see where it goes. My ‘73 can be the test mule. It’ll have a 292 cam, header, exhaust. I have a 38/38 for it as well but swapping the two will be easy enough. I think with the right fuel pressure and injectors some tweaks to the maps etc should make for a fine runner. 

 

The challenge is that I am just at the cusp of what the sniper will support in terms of C.i.  It may be that it doesn't flow enough to move the fuel into the engine efficiently. 

 

"Goosed" 1975 BMW 2002

 

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11 hours ago, jimk said:

You do chip burns (unless you have the Moates set up).  It's a long, long road to a good tune.

Yep, Moates.net Burn2 and TunerPro RT v5 and 3 chips to work with. It’s nice to datalog and make changes based on what I see.

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8 hours ago, Dudeland said:

The challenge is that I am just at the cusp of what the sniper will support in terms of C.i.  It may be that it doesn't flow enough to move the fuel into the engine efficiently. 

 

 

It’ll be interesting to see how they compare. The GM TBI has been around for ages and I suspect it will do everything the Sniper system will do aside from the “auto-tune”.

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I have merely scanned the 20 pages of this but I suspect that you using the Holly EFI system in an UP-Draught system might be a bit of a problem.  With the injectors squirting fuel at the throttle plate when the engine speed comes down to idle too quickly and the ICV does not open quick enough to maintain the RPM you have selected for idle.  The air flow past the plate slows down enough that the fuel just falls from the injectors DOWN and never makes it into the engine.   

1970 1602 (purchased 12/1974)

1974 2002 Turbo

1988 M5

1986 Euro 325iC

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15 hours ago, Preyupy said:

I have merely scanned the 20 pages of this but I suspect that you using the Holly EFI system in an UP-Draught system might be a bit of a problem.  With the injectors squirting fuel at the throttle plate when the engine speed comes down to idle too quickly and the ICV does not open quick enough to maintain the RPM you have selected for idle.  The air flow past the plate slows down enough that the fuel just falls from the injectors DOWN and never makes it into the engine.   

I think you are right.  The only thing is to fully remove all the material under the carb.  Right now I have just two holes aligned with the throttle plate.  I think If I were to remove everything the air/fuel can start to move around the corner eariler, with less chance of falling out of suspension. 

"Goosed" 1975 BMW 2002

 

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You say it goes lean when you get off the throttle.  Many of the fuel injection systems completely turn off the injectors when they see a closed throttle signal from the TPS AND the RPM is above a certain speed (usually 1300-1400 rpm) If the engine decelerates too quickly it might stall before the ECU can turn the injectors back on and actually get some fuel all the way to the cylinders.  You might also try setting the idle speed you want with the throttle plate and use the IAC to raise the idle speed for cold start or when the A/C compressor is running (if you have A/C) so any lag time between the ECU and the IAC does not let the idle fall below your selected speed. 

1970 1602 (purchased 12/1974)

1974 2002 Turbo

1988 M5

1986 Euro 325iC

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