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DCOE dual 40 linkage help needed


nbristow01

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1970 car, I have the Ireland manifold, spanish 40s and the redline linkage.  I got the carbs and linkage from TEP, manifold from IE.  There seems to be something missing.  The linkage that connects the redline setup to the throttle rod.  Any of you have pics of the section at firewall to the carb linkage?    I have attached a pic of the TEP setup so you can see what I have..from their site

K206 (1).jpg

I'm not as dumb as I look

74 Verona

06 Audi A3

09 Mercedes C300

06 VW Passat

03 VW Conv Beetle

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Pop off that ball mount, and attach the pull rod

that comes up from your gas pedal.   

 

I could not keep that style in sync.

 

t

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

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I retained the linkage you have, but instead of connecting

both carbs to the rod that runs over them, just open the front 

of the rear carb from it, then I used the center tie from a cable

set- up to open the rear of the front carb from the rear shaft.

 

I sync at idle, and again just off idle, and make sure that there

is a stop to prevent the throttle linkage from ever jamming either

carb hard against its internal WOT stop.

 

But I had the parts lying around, too...

 

t

whatever works.

bkuz racekar

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

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Would that sync clear the 1-piece manifold?  For the record, I've used something similar on the triple weber setup.

 

Nick, the reason I recommended the Pierce linkage is that it uses a thicker cross bar and cast lever arms (with lots of surface area contact), both of which are factors that will greatly improve long-term synchronicity.  

 

Also, the lokar cable I think I recommended is that missing piece you are referring to in your post.  It'll mate up with the pedal box and the lever arm nicely.  Not a fan of running stiff jointed linkage, it needs flex to mitigate artificial throttling that can happen if running rubber engine/trans mounts.

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I don't think he's actually inferring to use the pull portion of the mechanism, just the "sync".  

 

I should have looked at my own pictures, note the linking of carbs 1 & 2,  looks like it should clear a single piece manifold.  

 

36384772113_0bc90bd572_c.jpg

 

It's a long way to go around it, but it certainly would work nice and stay in sync with a cast lever arm (as would the pierce HD linkage).

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I have the top-mount style linkage that you're referring to, that pulls from the back by the firewall.

 

Ditch the ball-mount, as Toby says. 

 

I reused the barrel-nut/pin/clip setup from my factory Solex to attached to the back lever arm, but I think I had to drill out the holes in the arm to make it fit. If you go that route, do yourself a favor and once you've got it setup, safety wire around the clip to the arm (or ziptie, wonder-bread twist, whatever) otherwise that clip can let go, causing you to loose throttle when getting a bit happy with the go-pedal. (been there, done that)

 

As for synchronizing, spend a good while dialing that part in. Do it on a bench, do it on the car, check it when warmed up, buy a squirrel cage flow meter... etc. That's a whole nuther subject thou. 

 

If you do have the Redline kit, like I do, you've likely heard of people complaining about loss of synchronicity over time. Reading all these issues meant that when I installed my linkage, now maybe 3 years ago, I lightly filed the inside of the arms, and where they would eventually end up contacting the pivot rod for extra grip. I then went ahead and applied permanent loctite adhesive between the parts when tightening down. The rest is up to meticulous adjustment of the pusher-arms, and making sure the lock-nuts are tight. 

 

3 years down the road, I haven't touched my linkage or it's adjustment. I'll have to fiddle with the Idle adjustment screw now and again, it seems to like to 'self adjust' over time, and is highly temperature sensitive.... Not sure if it's down to contraction/expansion rates within the linkage itself, or what. Sure, it's definitely not the best linkage kit out there... but it's cheap, and if you put in the extra sweat-equity you can make cheap work good! 

 

I can take a photo this evening if it's still helpful. 

Edited by 2002Scoob
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6 hours ago, AceAndrew said:

Would that sync clear the 1-piece manifold?  For the record, I've used something similar on the triple weber setup.

 

Nick, the reason I recommended the Pierce linkage is that it uses a thicker cross bar and cast lever arms (with lots of surface area contact), both of which are factors that will greatly improve long-term synchronicity.  

 

Also, the lokar cable I think I recommended is that missing piece you are referring to in your post.  It'll mate up with the pedal box and the lever arm nicely.  Not a fan of running stiff jointed linkage, it needs flex to mitigate artificial throttling that can happen if running rubber engine/trans mounts.

 

2 hours ago, 2002Scoob said:

I have the top-mount style linkage that you're referring to, that pulls from the back by the firewall.

 

Ditch the ball-mount, as Toby says. 

 

I reused the barrel-nut/pin/clip setup from my factory Solex to attached to the back lever arm, but I think I had to drill out the holes in the arm to make it fit. If you go that route, do yourself a favor and once you've got it setup, safety wire around the clip to the arm (or ziptie, wonder-bread twist, whatever) otherwise that clip can let go, causing you to loose throttle when getting a bit happy with the go-pedal. (been there, done that)

 

As for synchronizing, spend a good while dialing that part in. Do it on a bench, do it on the car, check it when warmed up, buy a squirrel cage flow meter... etc. That's a whole nuther subject thou. 

 

If you do have the Redline kit, like I do, you've likely heard of people complaining about loss of synchronicity over time. Reading all these issues meant that when I installed my linkage, now maybe 3 years ago, I lightly filed the inside of the arms, and where they would eventually end up contacting the pivot rod for extra grip. I then went ahead and applied permanent loctite adhesive between the parts when tightening down. The rest is up to meticulous adjustment of the pusher-arms, and making sure the lock-nuts are tight. 

 

3 years down the road, I haven't touched my linkage or it's adjustment. I'll have to fiddle with the Idle adjustment screw now and again, it seems to like to 'self adjust' over time, and is highly temperature sensitive.... Not sure if it's down to contraction/expansion rates within the linkage itself, or what. Sure, it's definitely not the best linkage kit out there... but it's cheap, and if you put in the extra sweat-equity you can make cheap work good! 

 

I can take a photo this evening if it's still helpful. 

Do you have a link to the Lokar cable?   Or is it the one TEP sells?

I'm not as dumb as I look

74 Verona

06 Audi A3

09 Mercedes C300

06 VW Passat

03 VW Conv Beetle

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I missed the post about the cable... I'm just running the factory stiff metal rod from pedal box to carbs.

 

I've not had issues with artificial throttling that Andrew describes, but I could maybe see that being a thing with soft factory motor-mounts. I've got Poly motor-mounts, which probably eliminate that issue, while adding a whole lotta buzz/vibration to the vehicle that nobody but myself is ok with. (because they're in... and it's too much a paint to go back)

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10 hours ago, AceAndrew said:

I don't think he's actually inferring to use the pull portion of the mechanism, just the "sync".  

 

I should have looked at my own pictures, note the linking of carbs 1 & 2,  looks like it should clear a single piece manifold.  

 

36384772113_0bc90bd572_c.jpg

 

It's a long way to go around it, but it certainly would work nice and stay in sync with a cast lever arm (as would the pierce HD linkage).

Andrew, have you ever used this or have heard feedback on it?

 

http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/item/linkage.html

 

I'm not as dumb as I look

74 Verona

06 Audi A3

09 Mercedes C300

06 VW Passat

03 VW Conv Beetle

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On 4/28/2019 at 10:02 PM, Son of Marty said:

I think Toby is referring to this style of center pull linkage.

 

WEBER DCOE CARBURETOR  INTER COUPLE LINKAGE DUAL WEBER 8MM BALL PIN PM3718

This style will hold sync literally for years

Yup, that's what I have between front and rear carbs.  Then the one rod from above

is set up so it's acting on the shaft that the above left- side part's attached to.

But I guess it's not terribly important.

 

I use the factory- style rod from the pedal to the twist- rod linkage.  It works.

 

t

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

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This is a slightly premature announcement but this thread has prompted me to make it now.

 

I am in the final stages of producing a complete linkage kit to be used with the Weber DCOEs on the M10.  The design is based on the 2002ti style linkage with a central lever rod running from the firewall bracket to a bridge bracket between the carbs.  To complete the kit, I designed a throttle shaft lever specifically for the DCOEs to be used with this ti-style linkage.  The kit will include every linkage piece between the accelerator pedal lever to the carburetors' throttle shafts.  It is also designed to utilize the original springs and clips and the adjustable head on the pedal to firewall bracket rod.

 

So, it should truly be a “bolt on” solution.  There are no other parts required and no modifications needed other than any fine tuning of the adjustable rods.

We hope to have these available by the end of this month.  Price should be around $200 for the complete kit.

 

Here are some pics of the prototype on our ’72.  We recently drove this car to Mid-Am ’02 Fest using this kit on OEM manifolds and 40 DCOEs.  We are also developing a similar kit for the “narrow” manifolds produced by IE/Korman/…

20190430_113528.jpg

20190430_113540.jpg

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