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Scottjeffrey

Ireland engineering Front Urethane Bushing Advice

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HI, I could use some input from anyone who has used these. I am considering them due to what I have read here, is there far greater ease of installation. A salesman there whom I spoke with yesterday said the ride quality/comfort would be the same but I have seen mixed comments. I run the original 13 inch steel wheels with 185/70's on them. I don't want a harder than stock ride beyond a tiny bit but from everything I have read, installing stock or aftermarket rubber control arm bushings seems close to a nightmare even for the pros. Thank you for your input. I put the car on the road very recently for the first time and the steering and or suspension feels terrible with a lot bounce and shaking in the steering wheel. The radius arm bushing at the front look new, the control arm inner bushings look completely wasted. Thanks again--Scott

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oh pffft. If your suspension is as terrible feeling as you describe, you'll be happy with the Poly Bushings. Even if they're a tad stiffer.

 

And yes, being able to press them in by hand without any stress or strain is exactly that. Stress-free, strain-free. Just be sure to use plenty of Poly-lube!

 

I've got em in my car, and have zero complaints thus-far, with a few years of driving on them. Maybe someone with longer-term experience, and maybe less positive feedback can chime in thou. 

 

I think people complain more about using Polyurethane motor/trans/subframe mounts ruining ride-feel than suspension bushings. 

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Scott, IE poly bushings will dramatically change what you have now, in terms of ride and control. Now that being said if you only install the bushings without changing other suspension components, the ride will be slightly firmer. Not stiffer. As far as installing them use plenty of dielectric grease on all points of bushing to metal contact. I have used them on many cars and customers cars without issues.

Matt



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I dont understand the big deal about pressing rubber bushings in. If you use OE rubber and lots of lube they go in effortlessly. If you use Ocap or any other aftermarket bushing yes, they suck. I can press a set of rubber OE bushings in a control arm in 5 minutes with crude threaded rod ,fender washers and sockets.  That said poly is super easy also. Ive run both and sell both but Im an all OE rubber guy for the street. 

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2 hours ago, BLUNT said:

I dont understand the big deal about pressing rubber bushings in. If you use OE rubber and lots of lube they go in effortlessly. If you use Ocap or any other aftermarket bushing yes, they suck. I can press a set of rubber OE bushings in a control arm in 5 minutes with crude threaded rod ,fender washers and sockets.  That said poly is super easy also. Ive run both and sell both but Im an all OE rubber guy for the street. 

This reminds me of the issue that everyone seems to have with the W spring for the brake shoes. I am a novice when it comes to most repairs on my car but I had "ZERO" problems removing and installing that spring when I replaced my shoes. Lucky? maybe.

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6 hours ago, BLUNT said:

I don't understand the big deal about pressing rubber bushings in. If you use OE rubber and lots of lube they go in effortlessly.

+1.  I wouldn't describe my installs as "effortless" but not difficult.  I used some scrap pieces of plastic plumbing pipe (very strong under compression), some long bolts (and all-thread), and thick washers to make my own pullers and installers, and everything went together with no trauma.  

 

Rubber vs urethane suspension bushings:  urethane will make your ride harsher, especially if paired with Bilstein sport shocks.  My E30 318is came to me with lowering springs, Bilstein sports and urethane bushings, and the ride is very firm.  A treat in the handling department but harsh on our typical cratered salt country roads.  My '02 with OEM suspension bushings, H&R springs and Bilstein HDs is a much smoother ride.

 

The place for urethane bushings without additional harshness is in the swaybar mounts and links.  

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I ran urethane on a car that was mostly stock with 14" wheels. I much preferred it over the rubber. My rubber wasn't amazing, but it was good. I wouldnt hesitate to run urethane again. My car now is far from stock..... I also drive big trucks, so my sense of ride may be a little skewed.

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Go figure....but...

 

I've found the new OEM bushings extremely difficult to install (just attempted another 6 sets 3 weeks ago).  Lubed to the gills, all the tricks in the book. etc.  I know historically @PaulWegweiser has also voiced similar frustrations.

 

Given the simplicity of install (and the preference to how they feel) I enjoy urethane (NOT Delrin/UMHW) on a fun street car for the pivoting bushings, but keep rubber mounts (engine/rear-subframe).  Matt's description of urethane being "firm" on a street car is spot on.... Mike's.... well maybe that harshness is due predominantly to the Bilstein Sports.  Then again, it's not like our butt-gauges are properly calibrated anyways. 

 

Also.... the timing on this is topic is about right.  It's been about 6 months since the last rubber vs. urethane conversation.  

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12 hours ago, AceAndrew said:

 

Also.... the timing on this is topic is about right.  It's been about 6 months since the last rubber vs. urethane conversation.  

 

 

That’s why they call it clockwork. 

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I did the poly bushings front and rear and also the motor mounts. Motor mounts came out and were replaced with OE within a week. Hindsight, I would have done the OE bushings all around if I had to do it again. The ploly are a little tighter and I'm starting to get a few squeaks that really test my OCD. Good lord the OE ones lasted 30 years! What am I really trying to improve on here?

 

My car is just a street car. I can see some gains in a track car etc. 

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(edited)

Another vote for urethane bushings.  In my experience ride harshness is more closely related to the shocks being used.  I don't care for urethane motor mounts (too much vibration), but the others seem pretty benign as long as you don't get them in too hard a durometer.

 

However, I use oem rubber bushings in my daily driver, and as stated above I've used combinations of threaded rod, large sockets, to get the rubber bushings in.  The hardest part has always been getting the old bushings out, which has variously involved hammers, chisels, hacksaws, and acetylene torches.  For installation hands down the best lubricant has been dishwashing soap. In my experience dishwashing soap consistently works better on rubber bushings than any of my exotic lubes.  Plus, it makes hand clean-up a cinch!

Edited by Ian
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(edited)

I dig them. Easy as it gets to install. At WORST you'll need a tap with a tiny mallet to pop them in.

 

I usually torch the rubber bushings and use a 2 jaw gear puller (in reverse so it pushes the old bushing out) while they're still a bit melty. They slide right out like hot marshmallows. This way there's as little force exerted on the old metal suspension bits as possible.


I maintain that as long as I have soft engine & trans mounts, a tall sidewall (55+) and non-sport rated suspension my car will still ride like a pillow, and IT DOES.

Edited by Spyke
clarify wording
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The trick to removing rubber bushings is to drill them to Swiss cheese. They then can usually be pried out with hand tools or, with nearly no effort, pushed out with an all-thread/washer/pipe contraption, a bushing press (like the cheapie set at HF), or a hydraulic press.

 

The trick to installing rubber bushings is to have a sleeve with an ID slightly larger than the bushing - so the bushing can slide into the sleeve easily by hand but without much/any radial slop. Lube up the suspension bit and bushing really good, put the bushing into the sleeve, put the sleeve against the suspension bit, and press the bushing from the sleeve into the suspension bit.  The sleeve prevents the suspension bit from mushrooming, and the bushing slides right in. When it goes right, like Blunt said, pressing them in is a 5 minute job. The hardest part of this is getting a sleeve in the right ID, which sometimes requires a little time with a lathe. 

 

That said, poly bushings are still much, much easier to install - always a 5 minute job.

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I swapped to urethane bushings, subframe inserts, and motor mounts many years ago from good condition rubber, and would never go back. I would substitute the description 'firm' with 'sharp'. Using Bilstein sports, and 205/60/13, I would never characterize my car as harsh or jarring...as a matter of fact, i'd like it stiffer, and I drive on some truly crap roads. 

     Like others, I simply torched the old bushings out. 

 

  Bob

 

 

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Bench vice, 2.5 or so pvc coupler and socket got mine out no issues. Front subframe bushings used a threaded bolt and a spacer/washer with the pvc coupler. 

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