Open Heart Surgery

[Einspritz]

Now we're getting somewhere.

 

So, if my math is correct, for P1, 25 = 1.56 cc / 1000 strokes @ 1000 RPM, 110 = ~6.88 cc / 1000 strokes @ 3000 RPM, 440 = 27.5 cc / 1000 strokes @ 5000 RPM and P4 @ 744 = 46.5 cc / 1000 strokes @ 7000RPM.

 

In broad, general terms, the maximum amount of fuel should be achieved at or about 4500 RPM, where Torque peak occurs, being reduced slightly at higher RPMs.

 

Your P4 value roughly correlates to my '72 values at 6000 RPM of ~ 50 cc's / 1000 strokes, and less at higher RPMs, of say, 7000 RPM as indicated on the test sheet.

 

Mind you, the pump can be calibrated to a minimum "resolution" of 0.4 cc / 1000 strokes, (think of that minute amount!) so that value could come up a bit and / or (also depending on fuel or altitude) you might observe a lean condition at WOT that you can't get into AFR specification. OR who knows, perhaps it is within spec for 4500 - 6000 RPMs. 

 

Your P1 values don't really correlate (in my mind), as the P1 curve, and thus the fuel, should DECREASE with engine RPM increase so as to shut off fuel delivery during high speed lift-off. With your figures, there might be an issue at idle with the engine starving for fuel and "hunting" as a result. I think they are WAY too rich for those RPMs.

 

We'll (you)will see how the idle works out and if you have to make big corrections. But remember, the idle setting is whatever makes it run smooth, and can be upwards of 3.0%-4.0% if need be, though it might soot up the plugs at that setting.

 

I hope the takeaway is that the end user spends dozens and dozens of hours trying to tune the Tii to its maximum potential only to discover that they can't achieve even normalcy after all the settings and tweaking of the linkage system because the pump rebuilder was not knowledgeable of the proper settings, inept, or just plane lazy.

 

I'll get off my soap box now.

 

Ted

[Lengrep]

Too bad Precision is sooooo slooooow. Because their KF Pump work and documentation is fantastic.


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[Swiss 2002Tii]

Thanks for these insights Ted.  You are the ultimate empiricist! ?

I tried the two best-known pump re-builders in Germany, and several in the US, and when I sent them your curves they just responded "we set it to factory spec", but would not agree to generate curves.  Wes was the only one who agreed, but in the end, the data was limited as you see.

Unfortunately, despite much effort and expense to get to where you pointed me, to have a KF Pump that has a known, correct function, I don't have the proof.  Time and much effort will tell.

 

So on to the coolant leak...

 

I popped off the WUR (I actually got it off without pulling the TB and runners).  Of course I'll have to disassemble everything to re-install, but I just wanted the WUR in my hand.

 

How did I miss this?!!!  I turned this pump over in my hands many times, admiring the nice anodized hardware, etc.  No explanation.  Must've been dazzled by the "pretty girl"... It has happened before.?

I decided this would be better done in the comfort of my "study".  So I needed to transport it from my garage a 100 yards from my apartment.

Now, BMW boys and girls, we all know important it is to "accessorize", and in this case I grabbed a box my company used to package some doo-dads for our 70th anniversary...

 

So I set about plugging the holes, and I realized that they represent a virtual "bottomless pit", as I could look far into the cylinder with a flashlight.

 

 

At first I was just going to cover the holes, but then I decided to fill in the seam around the whole circumference.  I realized later it's just as well. ... Upon reviewing the earlier photos, I realized THAT IS NOT WHERE THE LEAK OCCURRED!

The pinholes are actually visible in this photo.  The leak was on the opposite side of the circumference.

 

So you might be wondering, "What the heck in that rubber hammer for?!!

I was thinking that a cap liquid welded to the base of the WUR might be a good idea.

Where to get a thick, but flexible metal sheet to bond there?  How about a Nin Jiom Herbal Candy tin?  Tried, but it was too rigid.

 

I was on my way to the garage for some heavy-duty aluminum foil, and I stopped... I had a nice thick foil from a wine bottle in my hand last night!

And I thought, perfect!  In honor of Monica "Belluccissima" Bellucci ?, I would use a fine Italian wine, Bulichella!

I was using the hammer to form it around the base.?

But... then I decided that I want to be able to see the surface in the event the leak appears again.

 

Hopefully I can get this puppy back in this weekend.

[dlacey]

Given how corroded it is then it appears your rebuilder did not test it .. that's maybe not unusual as it's considered an accessory rather than critical to pump operation. So then maybe your 6mm discussion just indicates that it wasn't setup at all...

[Lengrep]

Well, it’s shocking to me...


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[Swiss 2002Tii]

I don't want to dump on Wes, but yep, just went over my invoice, and I think for $399.00, that "open sore" on the WUR might have deserved a mention!  This, and the fact that the Return Pressure Regulator is only allowing 22 PSI.

 

Wes:

Hello Tom,

We have completed your Kugelfisher injection pump, injectors and warm up unit.  Everything cam out like new. 

 

I had a lot of correspondence with Wes and he was really responsive.  I was quite clear on wanting graphed test results...  I thought I would get it, but from his responses, I think he believes that if cleaned and serviced the output should be correct.

 

I agree with Mr Einspritz that you could continue trying to solve this for a long time unless the injection pump is serviced. It is common that old injectors can deliver on specification at higher rpm but not at slow speed.  Poor atomization can result at low speeds where the delivery is the same but one or more injectors do not emit the very fine spray needed to atomize the fuel.   

The AFR at 3000 rpm (steady throttle) should be 13.0 to 14.0.  Idle can be a bit richer or about 12.0 but 9.0  is not acceptable with a healthy injection pump. 

We do not put much faith in static injector testers. After restoring the injectors, we pulse them at very high speed and volume to cleanse out the plaque or gas residue, and they must deliver precisely the correct amount of fuel at all speeds and loads. Then at idle we rotate the test bench motor shaft by hand looking for a crisp and clean spray from each injector.......we call this the "Wrist Test"

Because we strip all pumps and injectors to the core ( other shops may not do this) we are not concerned with flow numbers until everything is re-assembled. Pretesting pumps and injectors would add unnecessary time and expense.

> 

> We will send a copy of our test bench results that may not have much meaning (cc's per 4 minute test intervals) unless you create a graph from the two tables of information. The tii pumps have (4) preset factory notches in the pump input lever for different rpm levels.  After removing internal sludge and carbon from the logic section the flow outputs would not be the same as a high mileage pump.  The internal parts are much like a vintage Swiss Watch and every bit as accurate and repeatable. The calibration results or numbers between many tii pumps that have passed through our portals are unbelievably identical.

> 

> The internal parts can last a very long time but are affected by common sludge, carbon and rust from long term storage.  Mechanical fuel > Injection:  Alfa, BMW, and Porsche sports cars have become very desirable collector cars in this mad digital world we live in. Our i Phones and computers become out dated in less than 5 years. MFI does not and never requires updating or software revisions............they just need a little TLC.

> 

I'm going to shoot him a note about these quality control points.

 

 

 

[2002Scoob]

Man... Was just browsing this thread. Tii's are finicky, complex little machines!! Hope ya get her up on the road soon, we still gotta meet up and go for a drive when both our vehicles are working again :)

[Swiss 2002Tii]

30 minutes ago, 2002Scoob said:

Man... Was just browsing this thread. Tii's are finicky, complex little machines!! Hope ya get her up on the road soon, we still gotta meet up and go for a drive when both our vehicles are working again

You bet, Jeff!

I'll have mine running over the Easter weekend for AFR tuning.  If this WUR leaks, I can pull the one from the original pump.

I'm sure I'd be challenged with the carb work you find so easy!

[Swiss 2002Tii]

On 4/8/2019 at 5:23 PM, Einspritz said:

Mind you, the pump can be calibrated

Ted, for my further and ongoing education, how exactly does a pump output get adjusted?  The cam is a fixed device.  Are there adjustments on each cylinder output tappet, or tappet spring tensions that can be changed?

[Einspritz]

First, about the WUR; depending on what Wes does about the unit, you have one option to just epoxy over the whole end sealing it. that "should" hold as the pressures are low. Two, you can find a metal plug as I mentioned before (which is the Precision method) and then epoxy that in.

 

In fact I have been casually looking for replacement wax motors, and have general dimensions and specifications. I destroyed the bottom plug on one of my units to get to the wax motor out (it is still corroded in there) to find markings from the manufacturer, but need a magnifying glass to see them.....kind of an adjunct project since the Turbo uses a different style (of casting), but useful as I have one or two spare Tii pumps.

 

As far as the adjustments, I need to go back into the archives and a "book" I have that Dave wrote in the '90s which was my previous reference.

 

General understanding can be found in the "pump guide" blue reference p5-7.

 

I don't profess to know how to rebuild and calibrate a pump, though I understand the capabilities within, and how to tune the systems for the best running for your purpose. That is frustrating to me as I can't tell a rebuilder "just make this adjustment inside the pump".

 

You should appreciate the fact that Wes has answered your correspondence and is generally willing to make things right.

 

I do differ with his assertion that the AFR should be 13.0-14.0 @ 3000 RPM as that really depends on the fuel that you use.....remember fuel density and that affects things more than is assumed.......IF you want the system to be its best.

 

As far as the AFR for idle, it should be able to be tuned to what you want....e.g. I used to tune the Turbo to pass California SMOG at 1.5% CO at idle AND at 2500 RPM with minimum HC... but it would take me a dozen hours to do it. I figured out (using the gas formulation specs.) that I could use unleaded race gas which had much greater combustion efficiency rather than the 15% Ethanol (or whatever it is this week) pump gas. Thanks that it is exempt now.

 

I look forward to your sharing your experience in tuning this new pump.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SydneyTii]

I like this idea!

[Swiss 2002Tii]

52 minutes ago, Einspritz said:

I look forward to your sharing your experience in tuning this new pump.

As always, I really appreciate your depth of knowledge and willingness to share!

 

I have my LM-2 O2 sensor mounted in the exhaust this time around, so readings should be more accurate.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Swiss 2002Tii
additional info

[Swiss 2002Tii]

20 minutes ago, SydneyTii said:

I like this idea!

It works just swell, and if you follow with a spray of Penetrol or Owatröl, wait a while and wipe with a microfiber, it fills in all of the pores, almost like a powder coat. (credit to Ed Zinz!)

 

I spray that stuff all over the underside, on aluminum, and it makes a clear, hard film after a day of drying.  I just sprayed the intermediate shaft and center throttle linkage mount and they have this tough, clear, corrosion-resistant coat.  Better than paint in some locations, as you can easily renew it.  Works well on rubber hoses too!  (End of Advert! ?)

Edited April 10, 2019 by Swiss 2002Tii

[Einspritz]

OK found it, in summary:

 

"The fuel output curves may be shifted left or right, raised or lowered and even bent to suit the fuel requirements of any engine. the exact shape of the fuel output curve will vary depending on the type of engine and its air-flow characteristics. It is determined by the contour of the fuel control cam and cannot be radically altered but can be changed by internal adjustments  or replacement with a different design fuel control cam.

 

In standard form, the stock Kugelfischer pump can produce as much as 68cc's of fuel per 1000 strokes (enough for 200Ps or 197 Hp) which is FAR more than even the most highly modified (streetable) engines require. Replacement components within the pump can boost these figures significantly."

 

So, all I know is that it can be done, but not how to do it internally.

 

For anyone thinking of changing the cam, compression, head, etc. on these engines should require analysis and synchronizing with the pump specs if you want optimal performance, which is what we seek.

 

 

[Swiss 2002Tii]

 

I had a couple of great responses from Wes.  He was genuinely concerned.  He offered to refund the cost of the WUR rehab.

 

Fact is, I sourced the pump, bought it, and had it shipped directly to him, so I had not handled it prior to Wes refurbing it.

I inspected the pump to see the condition when I first received it from Wes, and photographed it (didn't catch the cap of the WUR though ?).  I turned that thing around in my hand a half-dozen times while I was installing it, and I didn’t see it then either.

The cap has been sealed with liquid metal.  Even after being dipped in boiling water while testing WUR travel, the liquid metal is still rock-solid, so I’m going to call it fixed.

 

As far as the 6mm gap, I'm still putting the pieces of the system together in my head.  I think I've got it. 

The (verboten) grub screw setting was adjusted by Wes to set flow over the range. 

The gap of the screw on the enrichment lever is a function of moving the top hat washer up and down to achieve 2.6mm.  That needs to be set up now that everything is put back together.

The regulator retaining plate tool is required to keep the wax cylinder from rotating when one makes that top hat washer adjustment.

 

I didn’t have the retaining plate tool, but it just so happened that I had a strip of 1mm sheet steel that I picked up as scrap at the mechanic’s shop.  Worked perfectly!

 

Cleaned it up and filed to fit @ 13mm.  Works just fine.

 

I have a general question about the travel of the WUR.  I tested both.

 

On this "new" one, the wax cylinder stood proud of the body  > 1mm.  The top hat was 2.3mm from the cylinder surface.  It traveled when warm to about 7mm; the top hat to about 2.9mm.

 

I checked my original one, and the wax cylinder is about 2mm below the body surface, top hat again 2.4mm.  When warm, it traveled about the same, about 6mm. and the top hat stopped at 2.9mm.

I have read that they should travel 9-10mm.  I kinda-sorta remember mine doing that when installed in the car.  Maybe my test water was not hot enough (boiling)?

 

In both units, they do not seal off the air flow completely as I have read they should.  I spun up the cylinder so that the air passages were fully above the body, but I could still blow through the hose mount.  Curious.

 

In past trouble-shooting I have pinched off the rubber hose from the WUR to the plenum when the top hat was fully extended, and it made no difference to engine performance, so I have to assume that there was no air flow.

 

I got everything back together to fire it up, but my battery was discharged. ?  When I shut down after the leak, I had forgotten that the O2 meter was plugged into the cigarette lighter (always ON 12V).  It ran down the battery.

Hopefully my O2 detector is not cooked!

 

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Swiss 2002Tii
spelling