Jump to content
  • When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Tool to modify old style valve guides to accept new seals?


02Pilot

Recommended Posts

So I'm in the midst of tearing down a spare E12 head for rebuilding, and having just pulled off the old valve seals I see that they are (or were, given the state of degradation) the old style pieces. The guides are good so there's no point in replacing them. In looking at my options I discovered that the old style seals are ridiculously expensive (~$8/ea) compared with the new style (~$.50/each). Intriguingly, I also read a couple mentions here regarding a tool that fits in a drill and allows the old guides to be turned down to accept the new seals. I cannot, however, find a photo or any specifics on this tool. I'd much rather acquire the tool than spend $70 on inferior seals, especially as I've got a 121TI head on deck that's sure to have the old style guides as well. Anyone have any info on this tool and where one might find one?

--

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The tool is called a valve guide top cutter you'll need the i/d of the valve stem to get the pilot size and the dia of the valve seal to find the right one as AFAIK they don't make a adjustable one.

If everybody in the room is thinking the same thing, then someone is not thinking.

 

George S Patton 

Planning the Normandy Break out 1944

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, folks. Simeon, much as I appreciate the offer, it's probably not worth shipping them half way around the world. I will do a little research and see if I can track down a reasonably priced valve guide top cutter. I'll need to get the dimensions on the new style guides, but that shouldn't be too difficult. I'm sure a machine shop could handle it, but I'd rather buy the tool if it's not outrageously priced.

--

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The least expensive option is going to be replacing the guides- 

they're less than $5 a pop, and now you have new ones.

 

Like Ken, I've hucked dozens of the old style... until I learned to order

318 sets, which cost no more, and come with the right seals and the manifold gasket

that works better.

 

t

  • Like 2

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

goodson will have your valve top cutter but I'm with Toby..   for the price of the cutter you could buy the installation tool to air hammer in new guides and prob some guides.  Yeah sure you'll need to get the seats recut but really don't go cheap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The question isn't the cost of the new guides, it's having them installed. Unless there's something I've missed, there's no easy way of swapping the guides outside of a machine shop. I'm trying to do as much of this as possible myself, not so much to save a few dollars, but because I want the learning experience. If you know of a way to swap valve guides with basic tools, I'm all ears.

 

On the tool front, Comp Cams seems to offer a range of cutters that should work, dependent upon the measurements of the new style guides, which I need to determine.

--

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Andrej said:

The question isn't the cost of the new guides, it's having them installed. Unless there's something I've missed, there's no easy way of swapping the guides outside of a machine shop. I'm trying to do as much of this as possible myself, not so much to save a few dollars, but because I want the learning experience. If you know of a way to swap valve guides with basic tools, I'm all ears.

 

 

 

Installing new guides is quite simple. All you need is a suitably sized drift with a step in it, a hammer and a propane torch. Heat up the area around one guide and drive it through the head from the top. Measure the old guide with a micrometer and order new guides 2-3 thousandths bigger than  the ones you took out. Leave the other old ones in until the new ones come. Reheat the head and drive the remaining old ones out and new ones in, using the old ones as a guide so you don't drive them in too far and they are even on top. People have been known to use Loctite here. If your new guides are too big you'll make a mess pounding them in and if they're too small, they'll push right through. A machine shop will make a better job of this than you will but there's no reason you can't do it yourself and get the car to run well.

 

Please lap in the valves with compound when you're finished in case the valves are not perfectly centered with the new guides , put some gas in each chamber and see if it leaks out, and make sure stems are smooth in new guides after you install and cut them for seals.  Good luck and have fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the detailed write-up. Without question a machine shop will be able to do a better/quicker/more precise job of it, but I'm OK with adequate/slow/functional work as long as it's mine. I have a couple more questions if you'll indulge me.

 

As far as sizing the new guides, there seem to be standard and oversize options - are you saying I'll likely need to get them cut to fit properly?

 

Do the new guides get installed from the top as well (I'm assuming they do, but...)?

 

What, if any, machine work will the new guides require?

 

Oh, and Hal, thanks for the offer, but I think one way or another I want to get the new style seals in there.

 

--

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Andrej said:

As far as sizing the new guides, there seem to be standard and oversize options - are you saying I'll likely need to get them cut to fit properly?

Get the size off an old one - if they haven't been cut you can maybe measure with them in - and get your supplier to clarify "oversize." There are many oversizes. No "cutting" needed if you get a slight oversize...except for the cutting for the new seals if the new guides need it. Too big is no good and standard is no good.

3 hours ago, Andrej said:

 

Do the new guides get installed from the top as well (I'm assuming they do, but...)?

Yes, from the top. Keep the new ones level with the old ones, then cut for seals if the new guides aren't cut already. Use a good guide installation tool and use the heat so you don't have to use the big hammer.

 

What, if any, machine work will the new guides require?

If they are already cut for new style seals - none. To be sure of the valve to head seal you should lap the valves in if you haven't done a valve grind, as the center of the new guides may be off slightly from the worn center of the old ones. If you are not being fussy, you could probably skip the lapping.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks. Definitely planning on lapping, so no worries there. Heat on the head, guides in the freezer would be the plan. Any particular recommendations on tools? I need to track down a supplier who offers the range of oversize guides precut for the new style seals.

--

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • BMW Neue Klasse - a birth of a Sports Sedan

    BMW Neue Klasse - a birth of a Sports Sedan

    Unveiling of the Neue Klasse Unveiled in 1961, BMW 1500 sedan was a revolutionary concept at the outset of the '60s. No tail fins or chrome fountains. Instead, what you got was understated and elegant, in a modern sense, exciting to drive as nearly any sports car, and yet still comfortable for four.   The elegant little sedan was an instant sensation. In the 1500, BMW not only found the long-term solution to its dire business straits but, more importantly, created an entirely new
    History of the BMW 2002 and the 02 Series

    History of the BMW 2002 and the 02 Series

    In 1966, BMW was practically unknown in the US unless you were a touring motorcycle enthusiast or had seen an Isetta given away on a quiz show.  BMW’s sales in the US that year were just 1253 cars.  Then BMW 1600-2 came to America’s shores, tripling US sales to 4564 the following year, boosted by favorable articles in the Buff Books. Car and Driver called it “the best $2500 sedan anywhere.”  Road & Track’s road test was equally enthusiastic.  Then, BMW took a cue from American manufacturers,
    The BMW 2002 Production Run

    The BMW 2002 Production Run

    BMW 02 series are like the original Volkswagen Beetles in one way (besides both being German classic cars)—throughout their long production, they all essentially look alike—at least to the uninitiated:  small, boxy, rear-wheel drive, two-door sedan.  Aficionados know better.   Not only were there three other body styles—none, unfortunately, exported to the US—but there were some significant visual and mechanical changes over their eleven-year production run.   I’ve extracted t
  • Upcoming Events

  • Supporting Vendors

×
×
  • Create New...