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Ac parts help please

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50 minutes ago, thehackmechanic said:

Hey Rob, 

I was researching condenser fans. But I can only find specs in CFM's. (cubic feet per minute). 

I keep looking but I cannot find SDM's. (Small Dogs per Minute). 

I guess I will keep checking....

 

Vic

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I went to spal fans website and found apex 9 12 fan models 

which one ?

also anyone ever heard of

Calsonic Airconditioning components?

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You can narrow the list down by selecting pusher fans. Usually it will be a bit safer to pick the fans with higher CFM's, they will however be a bit louder. 

Stick with SPAL, they are reputable for being honest about their specs and they are essentially bulletproof. 

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I agree with Vicleonardo1. You can spend almost whatever you want on a fan. But only a handful of manufacturers like Spal have CFM ratings that are believable. As I explain in the book, it's a tradeoff of size, cost, CFM, amperage, noise, and weight. The condenser is only 10" tall, so a 12" fan will hang off the bottom, which on the one hand is "wasted," but on the other hand, all factors being equal, the 12" fan has higher CFM than the 10" fan, and width-wise, it's not "wasted"; you have those extra 2" on the condenser in the width direction.

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I am no fluid dynamics expert, but CFM is an unrestricted flow. Reality is the fan is creating a pressure differential across the condenser. In this situation the shroud is key...otherwise pressure leaks out any side or gap.

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21 minutes ago, dlacey said:

I am no fluid dynamics expert, but CFM is an unrestricted flow. Reality is the fan is creating a pressure differential across the condenser. In this situation the shroud is key...otherwise pressure leaks out any side or gap.

 

Spal include figures for performance of their fans against different static pressures. Random fan table:

 

B1A2CF73-51DC-4FA3-825E-44ADD70417F9.thumb.png.6c17b33f2246dc452c2274fc2a4cf53f.png

 

The fans have their own built in shroud, basically the ring around the outside. This doesn’t seem like much but when the fan is installed tight up against the radiator or condenser, this should be enough. If you think about it, the radiator is a series of tubes tightly packed together. Once the air has gotten across the gap between the fan and the radiator there won’t be any further losses out of the sides. A fan without this ring on the outside, like an engine driven fan, will be throwing air all around. These are often installed further away from the radiator as well so lots more losses. 

 

A fan shroud will increase the pressure right across the face of the radiator so will be more efficient but it shouldn’t be significantly better than a well designed electric fan installed tight on the radiator. 

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(edited)
15 hours ago, thehackmechanic said:

I agree with Vicleonardo1. You can spend almost whatever you want on a fan. But only a handful of manufacturers like Spal have CFM ratings that are believable. As I explain in the book, it's a tradeoff of size, cost, CFM, amperage, noise, and weight. The condenser is only 10" tall, so a 12" fan will hang off the bottom, which on the one hand is "wasted," but on the other hand, all factors being equal, the 12" fan has higher CFM than the 10" fan, and width-wise, it's not "wasted"; you have those extra 2" on the condenser in the width direction.

 

I’m embarrassed, Rob, to admit I haven’t yet purchased your A/C book. Knowing you, your experience, and your knowledge exhibited in this forum’s many A/C threads, however, I have recommended it to many people! 😋

 

Do you discuss auxiliary fan amperages and thicknesses? Spal’s four 12” pusher fans range from 7.5 to 20.0 amps, both an enormous range and, at the upper end, an overwhelming draw on a stock or nearly-stock (e.g., e21) alternator. And 12” fan thicknesses range from 2.05” to 3.76”. Assuming I’d be replacing my charming 8” original Clardy fan in front of the original Clardy compressor, will the thicker 12” fans — 3.43” and 3.76” — even fit, or am I limited to the thinnest 12” fans - 2.05” and 2.48”?

 

I ask these questions because I’m trying to order the right auxiliary fan without the benefit of an available ‘02, the ‘76 being still in Greer and the ‘73 being stored in a friend’s warehouse in PA.

 

Thanks and best regards,

 

Steve

 

A5EB3634-E21F-42A7-8ECA-47E37005DE31.jpeg

Edited by Conserv

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Steve, yes, I do talk about these trade-offs, using what I'd just done on my '79 Euro 635CSi as an example, but obviously nothing will be as complete as an actual Spal catalog for the fans under consideration for a specific project. For the a/c resurrection in Bertha, I used the Spal 30101505, the low-profile pusher fan, one of the ones you have highlighted above. The link to the BimmerLife piece where I install it is here (https://bimmerlife.com/2018/08/31/resurrecting-bertha-making-her-cold-again/). Part of the tradeoffs with the fans is that the more CFM they blow, obviously the better for cooling, but the more current they draw and the heavier they are. If the fan is thin and light, I usually use the zip-tie kits to mount it to the condenser. That was my plan for the 30101505, but when I had it in my hands, it felt heavier than I was comfortable with, so I mounted it to the hood supports.

 

And thanks for your kind words.

 

--Rob

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On 1/11/2019 at 4:24 PM, thehackmechanic said:

Thanks Simeon.

 

Yes, if you want to be absolutely safe, 10"x18". As I explain in the book, the problem is that the condenser dimension doesn't include the brackets on the sides, or the threaded ports that the hose fittings screw into, or the hose fittings themselves. By the time you add those things on, the effective width of any condenser is nearly 3" wider than the quoted width. This is shown in the image below. This is a 10x18 condenser with the tape measure on the edge of the left bracket. The hose fitting is a "short drop fitting," the narrowest available. The total effective width is nearly 21"

 

--Rob
 

IMG_5772.JPG

 

 

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Hi Guys, I'm about to order my hoses and fittings and bought a 71500 A/C Hydraulic Hose Crimper Tool Kit Crimping Set Hose Fittings Hand Tool. Am I correct the that the purple die is for both reduced barrier number #8 and standard #6"?  The outer diameter of the two size hoses compared is +/- 3/64ths of an inch. Just want to make sure.    Also, apart form my evaporator fittings, everything else seems to call for 90 degree fittings as best I can see and visualize. Is this patently impossible for some reason I can't see?  Cant wait to make and install my hoses. Thanks again to Rob Siegal and to his terrific book. So close....

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Is the 10” dimension mandatory or it won’t fit in the nose through the grill opening of through the radiator opening?

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@Scottjeffrey--> I don't have my kit in front of me, but yes I believe that is correct in terms of the #6 crimper. I'd need to look and see what the angles are for the fittings I used on my car, and I'm about to head out for the evening. Thanks for your kind words on my book.

 

@Simeon--> There is a height limitation that's caused by the narrowing crevice between the nose wall and the bottom of the hood supports, but the other issue is that condensers are only available in certain sizes. I don't think, for example, that 11x18 is available, or at least it doesn't show up on eBay and Amazon and other places like 10x18. Nostalgic ac has an 11x19, but you'll have to cut into the bracket on the condenser to get it to fit. I've done this. It's easy enough with a Dremel tool. I think I show it in the book. 

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Hey Rob,

i read your book thinking I would

just ( read the parts about bmw02)

but in fact I read it cover to cover

and have referred to it numerous times tying to self learn automobile ac.

thanks also to your art department 

and your sense of humor it’s quite readable.

every car enthusiast should have a hard copy of his cars factory shop manual and a copy of your books 

on vintage electric and a/c

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4 hours ago, thehackmechanic said:

Steve, yes, I do talk about these trade-offs, using what I'd just done on my '79 Euro 635CSi as an example, but obviously nothing will be as complete as an actual Spal catalog for the fans under consideration for a specific project. For the a/c resurrection in Bertha, I used the Spal 30101505, the low-profile pusher fan, one of the ones you have highlighted above. The link to the BimmerLife piece where I install it is here (https://bimmerlife.com/2018/08/31/resurrecting-bertha-making-her-cold-again/). Part of the tradeoffs with the fans is that the more CFM they blow, obviously the better for cooling, but the more current they draw and the heavier they are. If the fan is thin and light, I usually use the zip-tie kits to mount it to the condenser. That was my plan for the 30101505, but when I had it in my hands, it felt heavier than I was comfortable with, so I mounted it to the hood supports.

 

And thanks for your kind words.

 

--Rob

 

Thanks, Rob.

 

I actually have a 30101505 sitting here, waiting to go in. But when I saw 7.5 and 9.5-Amp fans, I feared the 13-Amp ...1505 might impose too heavy a load....

 

Feeling better now! 😉

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

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