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Spal radiator fan installation with speed control (longish)


Healey3000

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Looks almost identical.  Are you saying that pulling down the PWM pin to ground turns the unit on?

 

If you just want a solid state relay, there are several fan modules out there that are smaller and less expensive.  They lack high frequency capability and can be simply turned on and off with a DC control signal.  A lot of Chrysler minivans of the same era have these and they seem reliable.

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To be honest it doesn't work as I expected. And I don't know whether it's defect but it works good for me.

  • M+: Fan+
  • M-: Fan -
  • 30: Battery +
  • 31: Battery -

So far so good. When I connect 15 to Battery + the fan spins up no matter if a PWM signal or + or - at PWM connector is existing or not.
Connecting PWM to a rectangular 12 Volt wave with different Frequency (tried 50-100Hz) or Pulsewidth has no impact on fan RPM

However connecting 15 to a PWM signal with different Pulsewidth can adjust the rpm of the fan within limits.

So continuous plus to 15 makes the fan spin up (and down) softly. The fan RPM is however not as high as a direct connection to the battery.

I have no oscillograph so I can't provide any quantified measurements.

I'll give it a try ... if it doesn't work i'll dump it and just use a normal relais.
In germany these Modules are 5-10 Euros mine was 8€ including mounting bracket and harness so no need to look for something else...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by uai
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I recall reading something about the Mercedes module being different.  Pin 15 is not present on the Ford module and I believe there is some kind of safety interlock on that pin.  The PWM pin should respond to an input frequency of approximately 100 Hz.

 

In the US, the Mercedes module will be hard to find and with the abundance of the Ford/GM units, there is no need.  Uai, aren't Ford cars plentiful in Europe?

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This might help: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=70308

 

Sounds like applying 12 volts to pin 15 turns it on at full speed.  If so, you have an on/off control.  If that's all you need, a relay is probably way simpler, cheaper and compact.

 

If it does soft-start, that might be a reason to use it.

Edited by Healey3000
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  • 2 years later...

Another option is use one of Spal's brushless fans. My wife regularly complained about the noise from the 16" SPAL on her Jeep Grand Wagoneer with a 5.3 LS engine, so I did some research and purchased a SPAL brushless fan. It uses a temperature sender in the radiator to vary the fan speed, while also providing an input for full speed when needed. It does soft start, and should last forever since it doesn't have the brushes to wear. She never mentioned the fan again, and you could usually find it just barely spinning when I would check it.

 

Two problems: Pricier that a brushed fan, and can be hard to get through normal sources. 

'74 2002Tii Sienabraun: Henrik

'67 Ford Galaxie 500: Grandpa

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  • 5 months later...
On 1/13/2019 at 10:17 AM, Healey3000 said:

Thanks!

 

I used a PIC 16F18324 for this.  If there is interest in this controller, I think it should be changed to be more packaging-friendly,  I've done a PCB layout for an 8-pin Ampseal header and the board fits completely within the footprint of that connector.  This would allow for a small, sealed module that can be placed just about anywhere.

 

Have you produced more of these, or are you willing to produce one?

 

Thanks,

Dennis

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Question part 2

"The challenge with PWM is that aftermarket controllers typically provide a 100 Hz drive frequency, and for good reason.  Making a reliable, high-frequency, high-current driver is expensive and technically challenging.  The Spal fan and many others with brushed motors, like to run at much higher frequencies, around 20 kHz."

 

Looking to use a brushless pusher fan as I understand they are a bit quieter. How will the use of a brushless fan affect the system you developed? 

 

Thanks

Dennis

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Hi Dennis,

 

Sorry for the delay in responding. I have not produced more of these as there has been no interest; you're the first one to ask ?

 

I think I have a blank PCB or two somewhere which I can build up.  I may not have the components, which I hope are available, given the crazy chip shortage.  I think it should be okay.  Will you be using the same temp sensor I used?  If so, the code would need no changes.  Do you have one of the Ford modules?

 

A brushless fan would be a nice upgrade for this application.  Depending on whether it has a built-in controller or not, my circuit may or not be usable with it.  If you can tell me which BLDC fan you are considering, I can take a look.

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I haven't sourced any of the parts yet. After messaging you I found three brushless, 12" pusher fans as below, as well two PWM units. I think they are stand alone units combining the board you created and the unit from the Ford Fusion. I'm not the most savvy with electronics, would one of the two stand alone units below achieve the same thing and save you some time?

 

https://www.steeleracingproducts.com/collections/radiator-fans/products/srp-r10012-series-12-high-performance-radiator-fan

 

https://wizardcooling.com/12-brushless-spal-fan-and-diy-shroud-kit/

 

https://deltapag.com/products/12-brushless-fan-kit

 

https://www.autocoolguy.com/product-page/hf-125-7-khz-pwm-controller

 

https://www.steeleracingproducts.com/collections/accessories/products/vspeed-controller-radiator-intercooler-variable-speed-control-pwm-connector

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Hi,

 

The autocool controller shows 7 kHz as the frequency.  That won't be good for a Spal fan (I also find the 125 amp rating to be oddly high).  The last link, Steele, does not list the PWM frequency but they may tell you if you contact them.

 

A complete kit would work well but it comes with a pretty high price tag.  Incidentally, if you use the WN high capacity radiator, you may be just fine with a 10" fan.  I have the 12" fan and find that it has very little work to do.  You may be in warmer climes than I am but if I were to do it again, I'd go with the 10".

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21 hours ago, Healey3000 said:

The autocool controller shows 7 kHz as the frequency.  That won't be good for a Spal fan

Is the high frequency requirement specific to the Spal brushless fan, or brushless fans in general?

 

"Incidentally, if you use the WN high capacity radiator, you may be just fine with a 10" fan."

I live in the pacific north west, but also running A/C

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Hi,

 

I was referring to the brushed Spal; sorry, I should have been more specific.  I'm now wondering what exactly these "brushless fans" are.  I think of brushless in the context of BLDC motors, which have three wires, one for each phase of the windings.  Those require a specialized controller, not a run of the mill PWM driver.

 

Do you have a datasheet on one of these with details of the wiring?

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