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steering box


Moto Carlo

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In the Porsche world a lot of the aftermarket stuff is that Chinese crap that simply melts apart under a wrench.. So that is always on my mind too - where the parts coming from.

You guys have given me a lot of great info .

Earlier Mike mentioned the difference in feel between a rack and a steering box. I had not considered that ,and it might be a part of it. My expectations.

 

I will get the front end in the air, check the play, see how much of the adjusting nut is still showing, check the cover nuts on the top to see if all is tight and get an idea of what is going on.
Then later (when the garage warms up a bit) will refurbish the box and have a look at the worm gear , bushing, etc... just to see what is going on and to make sure it is the best it can be. 
Then ... take it from there if I have to replace the box.

 

Big help everyone. Thanks for all the advice!!

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I wonder if Flaming River would make a replacement, or even a quick ratio variant. If enough people ponied up in advance.

 

I bought one for my Corvair. I can't imagine the Corvair community is spending much more money that we are in aggregate.

 

Then again, everyone wants a quick ratio box (and arms) for their Corvair, so maybe the market is bigger.

 

 http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0011/s0011/FR1542Q

 

 

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Justin Turner

'74 Malaga 

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1 hour ago, kbmb02 said:

'I've got a guy' who replaces those brass bushings when I bring a customer's steering box, and it makes a difference. (Of course, the worm/roller contact surfaces need to be in very good shape.) One day I plan on bringing a couple of good cores over to rebuild and then sell 'em.... -KB

 

I am not "that guy" but i did have bushings made with oil channels. They are 50% longer than the OE and in some boxes they will fit. Others you have to cut them. They are expensive in short runs. In addition, ANY bushing, mine included, must be honed to specification in order to be right. Either way, the longer lower bushings really negate the need to have the upper bushing replaced as the load is distributed over a larger area along the shaft.

 

If you factor in the cost of the bushings ( I think I have 15 sets left), the time and expense of getting dry ice or LN2 to cool the bushings for insertion, the machinists' time to align hone, and the cost of the ball bearings, seals of the proper material etc. you are well into the $500-$1000 including time.

 

That does not include replacing the needle bearings within the roller if they are worn; if so, there is axial play which directly affects how much play will be in the steering wheel. It should be zero, and no amount of "adjustment screw" will counteract that. As I have said before, the adjustment screw is THE LAST adjustment and has very little effect on the slop proper, but can affect how "tight" the box feels. The adjustment can be higher OR lower than the tangent point of the roller to the worm. You really need to have a tool to set the shims' torque effect on the worm and the other settings to make it right.

 

Many times the roller shaft or worm is degraded too far and can't be made perfect, so the condition of the core is key. I used 2 boxes to make 1, and separately, the CR box was in the best condition.

 

i pursued the ZF route through a colleague who knows the engineers at ZF, and the response was that they do not do that any longer, nor do they provide parts. They don't even divulge the specifications that I have found. IIRC ZF charged $1500.+ Core.

 

It all comes down to what is acceptable and / or the appreciation of the time and research needed to have it done perfectly.

 

That said, if your idler arm bushings are not up to snuff, the whole project is moot.

 

 

Bushings 415 (Small).jpg

Bushings 416 (Small).jpg

Cooling Bushings 8 (Small).jpg

Lower Bushing 6 (Small).jpg

Upper Bushing 13 (Small).jpg

Steering Box Tool A (Small).jpg

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38 minutes ago, jturner said:

I wonder if Flaming River would make a replacement, or even a quick ratio variant. If enough people ponied up in advance.

 

Bill Watson of Road Rockets is having test pieces made, and I have two other candidates if that doesn't work out. I have nothing to base it on, but I would not be surprised if a set of any ratio worm and rollers cost over $1000.

 

The reality is that most will not see the value in quality reproduction parts that have countless hours of research devoted to them.

 

I looked into having the worm and rollers digitized. Several thousand dollars. Clean up of the digitized file, several thousand dollars. All before you even figure out the type of material, the machining costs, and any post machining treatments. I stopped there because "I got mine" and figured that as a business venture it wouldn't pay.

 

The same goes with the Bronze bushings I had made; I have several thousand dollars invested and two years of on and off research in that project.

 

Or perhaps wiring harness for a late model Euro Tii; did that too.

 

I found a source for the OE bushings, IIRC they are $35.00 each; my bushings, $50. ea. is what I need to cover my costs, not make a profit.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Einspritz said:

I would not be surprised if a set of any ratio worm and rollers cost over $1000.

 

Maybe the economies are different for the 2002 box. I remember when the Corvair box was being prototyped, the worm/nut was around $300 in the flaming river boxes. Seth Emerson was the guy that got it made. They cost $500 when I bought one a couple years ago.

 

At that cost it was a no brainer. I bought one just to keep the original as a spare...

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Justin Turner

'74 Malaga 

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Well, the next step in the not too distant future is retrofitting steering boxes from other cars. It might even be worth skipping that effort and going straight to solving the issues with rack and pinion retrofit. Certainly there are a dwindling number of RHD boxes available with the worms in good condition so we can’t be far off this point unless we want to keep large yard ornaments. 

 

I have considered whether a rack with the centre output (see link) could replicate the geometry of our steering better than a typical rack with the steering joints on the ends. This would replace the centre drag link no?

 

http://retrorack.com.au/rhd-retrorack-kits/67-70mustang-rhdkit

 

 

rtheriaque wrote:

Carbs: They're necessary and barely controlled fuel leaks that sometimes match the air passing through them.

My build blog:http://www.bmw2002faq.com/blog/163-simeons-blog/

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16 hours ago, Einspritz said:

 

I am not "that guy" but i did have bushings made with oil channels.

It all comes down to what is acceptable and / or the appreciation of the time and research needed to have it done perfectly.

 

@Einspritz has done some impressive work on this, evident by his desire for and choice of word "perfectly". Outside of that standard, there are a range of options and methods available - I suspect that within this post/topic, folks can find enough information to decide which approach they'd like to take.

 

15 hours ago, Einspritz said:

Bill Watson of Road Rockets is having test pieces made, and I have two other candidates if that doesn't work out. I have nothing to base it on, but I would not be surprised if a set of any ratio worm and rollers cost over $1000.

 

I'll bet 5 bucks they will cost more than $1k. -KB

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11 minutes ago, kbmb02 said:

there was a large(er) diameter washer installed between the inner wishbone bushing and the nut. -KB

 

Indeed.  There should be a large concave washer on both sides of the stabilizer bar with the concave side facing out, away from the bushing.  Installing it the other way results in the bushing being frayed with possible earlier failure.  There should also be a concave washer on the other end of the stabilizer bar, again with the concave side facing away from the bushing.  The very front of the bar uses a large flat washer.

These washers are among those parts that get left on the workbench and replaced with an alternative.

 

Stabilizer Bar Components (6).jpg

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BMWCCA  Member #14493

www.2002sonly.com

1086238739_Logoforsignature.png.eb1354ab9afa7c378cd15f33e4c7fbbe.png

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8 hours ago, halboyles said:

 

Indeed.  There should be a large concave washer on both sides of the stabilizer bar with the concave side facing out, away from the bushing.  Installing it the other way results in the bushing being frayed with possible earlier failure.  There should also be a concave washer on the other end of the stabilizer bar, again with the concave side facing away from the bushing.  The very front of the bar uses a large flat washer.

These washers are among those parts that get left on the workbench and replaced with an alternative.

 

Stabilizer Bar Components (6).jpg

All new mounting hardware came from Walloth Nesch in Germany.  The proper spacers and cupped washers are installed.

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Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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I think what KB and I are seeing is a much smaller washer against the bushing.  From the pic it appears that the washer between the nut and the bushing is about the same diameter as the nut.  Whereas the original cupped washer is about the same diameter as the bushing.  Pic below. (note the gnarled bushing, the result of installing the cupped washer backwards before it was installed correctly)  Hope that makes sense.

And yes this project has been up on stands long enough to provide ample shelter for arachnids and their food!

Stablizer Bar Washers (2).jpg

Edited by halboyles

BMWCCA  Member #14493

www.2002sonly.com

1086238739_Logoforsignature.png.eb1354ab9afa7c378cd15f33e4c7fbbe.png

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