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wkohler

My Turbo and Exhaust manifold

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Had a friend in town over the last couple days.  We were looking at the car going over the next steps to get it running.  Since he has more experience with turbochargers than I do, I asked him what he thought about it’s condition and he was really surprised at how tight it was.  It spins smoothly, has negligible play and he even suggested that it might not be worth rebuilding it right away.

 

I hadn’t removed the heat shield over the manifold and since we were already here and I had noticed a crack in the shield, I was interested to see how the manifold was.  I spilled plenty of marvel mystery oil on it while oiling the cylinders, I figured those screws would come out easily.  They did.  Then we found this:CD0A69B9-A19D-4A2E-BFE2-8124776685E1.thumb.jpeg.a1e5fb49a0f465387b9097e3cba84409.jpeg

 

There are several more cracks throughout the manifold, so we decided to remove it.  A8B33BE7-0407-4075-BA73-C364541EEEF8.thumb.jpeg.b12bec5c47e6181bc2bf35012e885f69.jpeg

 

After bending a Heyco wrench to remove the top bolt on the right motor mount, then lifting the engine slightly, we had it out and on the bench.  I removed the turbo from the manifold.  

7B5F0B50-A0C5-42B7-AEAD-2BB6C32FA0D2.thumb.jpeg.b98e73224de8e1fdedcb6fe066d4bce9.jpeg

 

More cracks.  Obviously I’m in need of a replacement.  Unfortunately one of the nuts came halfway off then stopped, so I removed the stud.  It has been held captive by the turbo.  E7920683-A999-4ACD-AC31-27DEB6157EF5.thumb.jpeg.3e46c7ec8f3d94a45179f1a57e0a7b1a.jpegBD14BF99-C0C3-4534-A4B3-56D0BBB3A96E.thumb.jpeg.6add03fd63370fdad97401b43699f190.jpeg

 

That buildup after the turbine is cast iron.  It would appear that this has gotten pretty hot.  

 

The engine itself turns over by hand smoothly with the plugs out and it has compression with the plugs installed.  The plugs I removed didn’t show any signs of running very lean, but they are not correct (W7DC).  

 

F7FDDF65-DE8A-484A-87AD-B27D645F336D.thumb.jpeg.08e0b080e692c261b484903417f8d614.jpeg

 

The car still had green, non-rusty coolant and the oil, though black, was free of any obvious contaminants, etc.  There is a black, non-sludgy film on the valvetrain but it wipes right off and the cam lobes look good.  57B5D13C-FF37-4824-B1C7-DE0A5E21B14A.thumb.jpeg.be2485ac81d0ea0ab48e5c699849a5c6.jpeg

 

At this point, I’m curious what the next step would be.  I can’t imagine having what amounts to a foundry being bolted to the engine is good for it.  It seems I’m on the hunt for a manifold and some way to fix the turbo or perhaps find another.  If anyone has any thoughts, I am interested.  Thanks!

 

-Chris

Edited by wkohler

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The list of cars that need a new exhaust manifold just keeps getting longer.  We must be getting close to critical mass and have enough to make casting new ones a viable enterprise.  

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There is a guy in Germany that posted on the 2002 Facebook group that he was going to make some.  Obviously I will believe it when I see it as so many of the people commenting on the post aren’t aware of what manifold it is, suggesting he change the design.  I had mentioned the exhaust housing as well prior to making my discovery, but I obviously don’t have a good one to contribute.

A58231B7-D587-4BD8-9A29-6059C7B80483.jpeg

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I noticed too that in the first picture on the right flange that it is cracked.

 

Just to satisfy my curiosity, how many miles are on the car / engine,  turbo and the manifold? Do you know what %CO you were running at WOT full load and at idle?

 

If the manifold and the turbine show that much "white" and "slag" then you might want to do a compression check and a leak down check. At least pressurize the cylinders at TDC and listen for leakage in the exhaust ports, the intake ports, and the crankcase. That is a quick check on the integrity of the valve seats, which BTW are NLA from BMW and you will have to have oversize seats made. If you have leakage into the crankcase, which may also be evidence of blowby by the black deposits / oil. Then it is up to you how far you want to go.

 

If you do have good compression and leakdown, then what I observe is that you are running too rich at idle / mid throttle and lean at WOT and full load.

 

With all of that said, a previous post mentioned a 50-100 ea. minimum for production. I just can't think that worldwide there isn't enough people to make that.

 

My  experience is that (following the factory's tuning and modern gas) the engines run too lean and the manifolds and turbine housings crack about every 20,000 miles. So if you drive your Turbo, stock up!

 

I guess it is also time after the new year to get crackin' on investigating having the turbine housings made or cross referenced to a modern turbocharger.

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The car has been sitting unused since 1985.  It shows 88k KMs on the odometer.  I bought it earlier this year and it wasn’t from the person that last drove it.  Naturally the details surrounding why it was parked differed from what I discovered.   I don’t know any details about the tuning.   

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21 hours ago, wkohler said:

Has anyone reached out to this guy? I will contact the German Turbo club and see if they have interest in a run of these.

 

A58231B7-D587-4BD8-9A29-6059C7B80483.jpeg

 

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Here’s an interesting thing that could be relevant to the photos of your turbo. When I bought my new old stock turbo in Germany the guy I bought it from said that they have figured out how not to have problems with the turbos, they grind down  part of where the turbo attaches and that has stopped the cracking. Here is a diagram he drew for me:

 

 

4FCED367-31B0-42F1-BBB6-D1FA16544032.jpeg

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Is that suggesting that a misalignment or perhaps the divider in the exhaust housing not smoothly matching up to the divider in the manifold is causing the center part to get much hotter than it should?  From the manifold side of the flange, that certainly seems to be the case.

 

Looking at what I have, it could stand to reason that I could remove what is left of that divider and maybe the exhaust housing would be salvageable.  It has been completely breached in its entirety but the rest of the housing looks to be fine.  

 

There is still some damage to the exhaust turbine on the inside vanes (melting) but perhaps this turbo could be salvaged?

 

Another thing I was considering is perhaps adding a bracket to help support the turbo from underneath, say to the motor mount arm so it is not wholly supported by the manifold. I can’t imagine that helps matters looking at where the worst of the cracks are.

Edited by wkohler

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24.png

05 Bracket 11651262590

 

 

06 Support plate 11651262591

 

 

I have one of these

(05 Bracket)

but forgot who I promised to send it to. lol

 

06 is bolted to the turbo and 05 carries the load by being bolted to the block.

Edited by m6smitten

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What? No warranty service?

 

Rumor has it Carl Nelson was making these, but I am sure that you could do it for less.

 

I think #5 above is still available.

 

And when you do install the support, leave all the bolts and nuts loose until you get everything lined up. Otherwise it won't fit.

Supplemental Supports for Injection and Turbo.pdf

Exhaust Manifold Tightening.pdf

Turbo and Exhaust Pipe.pdf

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An 02turbo specialist in Netherlands told me specifically to NOT fit the heat shield in order to prevent cracking of the manifold....

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I'll stand by my comment about the tuning.

 

I'd say I have thousands and thousands of miles on track without a manifold incident; though I understand that perhaps with the air from the ducting blowing up past the manifold without interference may keep it "cooler". You might get a nice heat stained hood.

 

Do though, make SURE you have the heat shield over the steering bushings as they will melt.

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36 minutes ago, Einspritz said:

 

Do though, make SURE you have the heat shield over the steering bushings as they will melt.

22.png#9 ?

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