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multiple wheel bearing fail front


BimmerBouk

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But the core of the discussion needs to be by which criteria does the MOT use to identify bearing failure?

 

My bet is that they make a direct association between the modern sealed bearing cartridges and open tapered roller bearings, which are different.

 

+1 on considering brake pad drag.

 

I have never seen, nor had a bearing fail due to "contamination" particularly with respect to not using gloves; boat trailers with terrible seals, yes.

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Well contamination will shorten the life of the bearing but it's a long term deal It won't show up for many miles unless you have a tremendous bit of schmuck in there. As for clean hands and/or gloves it their  both clean I don't think you'll see any difference other than cleaning you hands afterwords and maybe a bit of kidney failure in the years to come?.

 

PS I have ground down the outer edge of the old races and then used them upside down to seat the new races  in the absence of a real bearing drive way better than a socket.

Edited by Son of Marty
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If everybody in the room is thinking the same thing, then someone is not thinking.

 

George S Patton 

Planning the Normandy Break out 1944

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21 hours ago, Einspritz said:

I have never seen, nor had a bearing fail due to "contamination" particularly with respect to not using gloves; boat trailers with terrible seals, yes.

 

The original poster, alluded to using gloves as though this was possibly integral to wheel bearing installation, "by the book."  Per my response, using gloves is irrelevant to wheel bearing function or R&R, and is more for the protection of the wearer than the subject upon which work is performed.  Never observing a bearing failure due to contamination may be a matter of pure luck or limited exposure to the questionable practices of others.  If you are observing your own work and attention to detail, then you probably would not encounter the problem.  Bearing failure may not always be obvious.  Bearings and the surfaces they ride upon do degrade and do so in different ways.  Among other things, the metal can abrade, pit, flake, corrode and deform.  Proper lubrication prevents or significantly reduces these problems, but not always.   http://donoupoglou.gr/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/catb3001e.pdf

 

Contamination, as SO Marty notes, can take time, but a lot depends upon the nature of the contamination.  Not all mechanics are careful and conscientious about their work.  Some treat their subject with clinical cleanliness while others .  .  .  less so.  This includes leaving grease containers partially exposed, so that dirt and grit might mix with the new grease in the container.  Likewise, if care is not used when wearing gloves, it is not impossible to handle dirty tools and without realizing it, use the same gloved hands to perform a task that ordinarily requires cleanliness and unintentionally transfer dirt or cross-contaminate work surfaces.  This practice is desperately discouraged in surgery bays as it should be when cleanliness counts with sealed moving parts, e.g., hard drive construction, engine construction and . . . wheel bearing installations.  There are those who drop a perfectly clean and freshly greased bearing on a service bay floor, and assume that it probably remains clean because the floor had been swept the night before, or the shop rag used to wipe the bearing had been washed once.  Seizing on gloves as part of the equation, I once pulled off a grease cap and found a membrane-like material stuck on the cotter pin.  (It was part of a glove that the wearer probably never noticed missing.)

 

There is also some logic to completely replacing grease rather than merely supplementing it with newer grease.  Most if not all grease may "seem" compatible, but what about the different branded greases that have incompatible formulations that may affect each other?  If, for example, one grease acts as a solvent or has a detergent effect upon the other and causes partial separation of the grease’s core consistency, lubrication or the ability to lubricate may be compromised.  Short cutting the removal of old grease before introducing new grease is therefore probably not the best practice, but some undoubtedly save some time and effort by skipping this step.  (Some probably skip changing oil filters at every oil change too.)

 

And there is also contamination by metal that has been shed from the bearings themselves . . .

 

Hand2.58a1e6d426e42.58ecf8be56d6b.jpg

 

 

Edited by avoirdupois
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39 minutes ago, avoirdupois said:

The original poster, alluded to using gloves as though this was possibly integral to wheel bearing installation, "by the book."  Per my response, using gloves is irrelevant to wheel bearing function or R&R, and is more for the protection of the wearer than the subject upon which work is performed.

 

I'll just leave this here. -KB

 

 

the-glove.jpg

Edited by kbmb02
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On 11/10/2018 at 8:12 PM, Einspritz said:

But the core of the discussion needs to be by which criteria does the MOT use to identify bearing failure?

 

My bet is that they make a direct association between the modern sealed bearing cartridges and open tapered roller bearings, which are different.

 

+1 on considering brake pad drag.

 

I have never seen, nor had a bearing fail due to "contamination" particularly with respect to not using gloves; boat trailers with terrible seals, yes.

 

The criteria are a bit vague, that is what I found out now. No play, that is obvious, but then there is the noise from the bearings, one workshop said, no noise at all. The other ons said, a little bit of noise with these old cars is ok, as long there is no play. I am going to get another workshop to get my MOT.

 

In the meantime I have tried to replace the hub, made no difference. So i have the idea that there is something with the bearing still, but my guess it should be ready for MOT since the noise is very faint. 

 

Also.. when I jacked up the car after the workshop did my bearing, they where allowed to do it since I just wanted to get it done, the bearing had enormous play... shocking. My guess is that they did not torque the bearing well enough to push out the surplus grease... crazy.

 

I have re adjusted them and try again at a local classic specialist. Modern workshops should stick to what they are good at.. laptops and replace everything with new parts according to the faulty code..

 

Cheers and again many thanks for all the thoughts

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  • 3 weeks later...

So what happened when you switched sides? Did the issue move? Maybe this was discussed, but are you sure the bearing components are seated properly in the hub?  AS above, the wheel needs to be turned as you torque nut, then back off slightly. Slotted washer should move with screwdriver.

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Hi Hans,

 

When I swapped the hub with another ons the slight noise was still there. I adjusted the bearings again. Went to another workshop, specialised in old cars, and got MOT flawless... the noise is very faint, there is no play. In the winter period I will put other bearings in again, just to find out if I was unlucky twice with the bearings.

 

But the good news, MOT, hurray :)

 

cheers and thanks 

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A video of the noise might be helpful in this collaborative diagnosis.  We do not really know much about the brake rotors, and whether they run straight and true.  Could it be that the noise you hear is due to slightly out-of-round rotors and minor contact with a brake pad (or two)?  Aside from actually checking for rotor run-out, one way to eliminate this as a possible noise maker is to pop out the pads and reinstall the wheel without any brake interference. 

 

Noise heard when wheels are slowly rotated reminds me of a Pat Allen post concerning the use of bolt-on automatic "dynamic" wheel balancers or matter rolling around inside the tire.  Both of these (far fetched) scenarios might explain a noise, as might an extra wide tire sidewall lightly contacting a strut.

 

 

 

02steeringstrutbearings.jpg&key=66b69328

 

 

post-1795-13667601193569.jpg

 

 

 

 

IMG_20140401_183146_zps07957a52.jpg

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

brakerotors.jpg

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5 hours ago, avoirdupois said:

Could it be that the noise you hear is due to slightly out-of-round rotors and minor contact with a brake pad (or two)? 

 

It could be the dust guard just touching the brake rotor. 

rtheriaque wrote:

Carbs: They're necessary and barely controlled fuel leaks that sometimes match the air passing through them.

My build blog:http://www.bmw2002faq.com/blog/163-simeons-blog/

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Thanks for your answers and thinking with me, both the brake calippers, the pads and the dust guards where not installed when hearing the noise. I still suspect the grease seal or the bearing. When I am at the car I will try to record the difference between left and right which starten all the fuzz. 

 

Best regards,

Bouke

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